Comparing PBs, new pool build and requesting feedback, Tomball TX

[Annoulini]

Hi all, we have met with several PBs and have narrowed it too two. Here are both proposals. One PB uses Jandy equipment the other Hayward but also notes Jandy never lube valves. We tried to get the design to match to be easier to compare. The one using Hayward is giving us a larger pool for a bit less $$$. We are not comfortable with the payment schedule for either and will be asking to change that (see final payment).

Could you please comment on the details below? Is there anything we missed? It’s such an overwhelming process but we are excited to get started and have a pool for our little ones. Summers in TX have not been kind. TIA

PB#1		PB #2
Geometric pool with sunshelf		Geometric pool with sunshelf
33.5 L * 11.5 width		39 L *11 width
99 sqft perimeter		109 sqft perimeter
11K gallons		13K gallons
21 feet raised wall length , 18’ H		22 feet raised wall length , 18’ H
12 inch thick floor, 6-8 walls		#3 3/8 Rebar in walls and Floors tied on 8" Centers, 12" box beam #4 rebar
2 skimmers		2 skimmers
2.5 inch suction, 2inch returns		2.5 inch suction, 2inch returns (6 minimum)
Equipment		Equipment
1 valves/ check valves/autofill/ main drain ( 1 a&a long drain)		Dual suction channel drain (VGB compliant), 3/4" Pool Automatic Fill Line with PVB Backflow Device, Jandy 2" never lube valves, overflow drain 2" tied into drainage,
1 surge protector
Aqualink pd6		Vs Omni / App Control
Filter cv460		C4030 (Cartridge Filter)
1 rainbow chlorinator
1 jandy salt cell plc-1400 apurem power center		Aqua Rite (Salt)
Polaris/tr-28 ( I will remove this)
1 jxi 400k btu heater		H-Series 400,000 BTU
Provision for chiller/pad
1 epump variable speed 2.7hp		Tristar 950 Vs Epump
Actuator for bubbler and sheer descent		Tristar 900 Vs Epump (for sheer descent, will replace with actuator)
2 jandy watercolor led pool lights		2 Hayward UCL LED Pool Lights
1 bubbler		Removed bubblers
1 4’ sheer descent		1 4’ sheer descent
Electrical includes sub panel		Electrical includes sub panel, 360 Degree Earth Ground at Steal of Pool Beam
Pebble finish level I		Pebble finish level I
Drains per linear feet to street/ drains under deck		Drains per linear feet to street
Travertine Decking/coping, porcelain on wall		Travertine Decking/coping, porcelain on wall
Payment schedule		Payment schedule
$5000 deposit		$1,500.00 Deposit
20% Due Before Excavation		30% Due on or Before Excavation
50% Due before Gunite		40% Due on or before day of Gunite
20% Due day of decking		20% Due on or Before Decking Begins
10% Due day of Plaster		10% Due on or before day of Plaster

 

[HermanTX]

Hi fellow Texan,
You will learn a lot about pool ownership from the TFP forum.
Below are my comments
It is assumed that you will not have a spa but not clear on that. It would be good to post a graphic of your pool design
What are your planned water depths?

Great that you will have a saltwater pool and the Jandy AquaPure 1400 is a good choice.

Aqualink pd6

You should ask for the specific part number of this automation system so we can understand what the PB has offered. It appears reasonable for your setup.

2 skimmers

Ensure each skimmer is independently plumbed back to the equipment pad.

I am sure others will provide additional feedback.

 

[Annoulini]

Hi fellow Texan,
You will learn a lot about pool ownership from the TFP forum.
Below are my comments
It is assumed that you will not have a spa but not clear on that. It would be good to post a graphic of your pool design
What are your planned water depths?

Great that you will have a saltwater pool and the Jandy AquaPure 1400 is a good choice.

You should ask for the specific part number of this automation system so we can understand what the PB has offered. It appears reasonable for your setup.


Ensure each skimmer is independently plumbed back to the equipment pad.

I am sure others will provide additional feedback.

@HermanTX thank you for the response!
Indeed we are building our pool without a spa. We are still undecided on the depths, between having a 3.5 to 5-5.5 to 4 feet or just have it 3.5 to 5.5 feet deep. I prefer the shallow-deep-shallow but are concerned with the slope as we have a total of 34 feet in length.
Here are some preliminary designs, thinking of some changes to the decking/incorporating landscape
Any more thoughts/feedback is welcome!

 

[Annoulini]

Should I request a separate pump for the one sheer descent or is an actuator a good setup to run the sheer descent and one bubbler?

 

[HermanTX]

Should I request a separate pump for the one sheer descent or is an actuator a good setup to run the sheer descent and one bubbler?

The Jandy ePump should handle that fine. Some people like to have the water features on a separate circulation system (i.e. pump) which is extra cost for the pump and electricity. I think it will be fine without it since you do not have a spa. You do want to have the PB provide you a layout of the plumping before he starts laying the pipe so you understand how it will be set up. You may want an controller on your valve so you can do it from your phone via the automation system. So you would have a return to the pool, a return to the bubbler and a return to the water feature. If you have a valve on each you then can control which is operating at any given time. Running all 3 with your single ePump should be fine, it just may require to run at a higher speed but the ePump is very capable.

 

[HermanTX]

We are still undecided on the depths, between having a 3.5 to 5-5.5 to 4 feet or just have it 3.5 to 5.5 feet deep. I prefer the shallow-deep-shallow but are concerned with the slope as we have a total of 34 feet in length.

My pool is several feet shorter than yours and I have 3.5 to 5.5 to 4.0. I do not find the slope any issue. The 5.5 ft section is only about 2 ft wide on my pool, yours may be a bit wider. The design lends itself to have shallow depths on each end with the steps on 1 side and the Baja shelf on the other so it should work ok.

 

[Annoulini]

My pool is several feet shorter than yours and I have 3.5 to 5.5 to 4.0. I do not find the slope any issue. The 5.5 ft section is only about 2 ft wide on my pool, yours may be a bit wider. The design lends itself to have shallow depths on each end with the steps on 1 side and the Baja shelf on the other so it should work ok.

Thank you for the feedback. The PB pushed for shallow to deep and I started second guessing our initial plan. Must be easier to design/built.

 

[Annoulini]

The Jandy ePump should handle that fine. Some people like to have the water features on a separate circulation system (i.e. pump) which is extra cost for the pump and electricity. I think it will be fine without it since you do not have a spa. You do want to have the PB provide you a layout of the plumping before he starts laying the pipe so you understand how it will be set up. You may want an controller on your valve so you can do it from your phone via the automation system. So you would have a return to the pool, a return to the bubbler and a return to the water feature. If you have a valve on each you then can control which is operating at any given time. Running all 3 with your single ePump should be fine, it just may require to run at a higher speed but the ePump is very capable.

The PB confirmed he will provide the plumbing layout and a valve on the sheer descent and manual valve for bubbler. I am not sure how the manual valve operation differs but seems to accomplish the role of controlling that separately?

 

[HermanTX]

a valve on the sheer descent and manual valve for bubbler. I am not sure how the manual valve operation differs but seems to accomplish the role of controlling that separately?

Not sure why the PB would differentiate the 2 valves. I would suggest that both should be Jandy never lube valve. Pentair has an equivalent modeL These valves are capable of being repaired whereas just a plain manual valve has to be replaced which requires cutting PVC and redoing plumbing. It is a little more cost up front but better for the long run in maintenance. Also, a Jandy or Pentair valve can be made to link to an automation system with an actuator placed on it.
Regardless the valves will allow individual control of each feature (sheer and bubbler) and allow you to adjust each to get the best flow.

 

[Annoulini]

Not sure why the PB would differentiate the 2 valves. I would suggest that both should be Jandy never lube valve. Pentair has an equivalent modeL These valves are capable of being repaired whereas just a plain manual valve has to be replaced which requires cutting PVC and redoing plumbing. It is a little more cost up front but better for the long run in maintenance. Also, a Jandy or Pentair valve can be made to link to an automation system with an actuator placed on it.
Regardless the valves will allow individual control of each feature (sheer and bubbler) and allow you to adjust each to get the best flow.

I just updated my post and would appreciate your thoughts. I asked PB#1 to not use manual valve on the bubbler. We will probably remove the bubbler all together. We have the sheer decent for "water sounds" not sure that the bubbler adds anything

 

[Annoulini]

@HermanTX are you familiar with Hayward equipment at all? I was hoping folks would chime in, should I make a new post?

 

[HermanTX]

@HermanTX are you familiar with Hayward equipment at all? I was hoping folks would chime in, should I make a new post?

I most have used Jandy and Pentair equipment. Maybe by giving a call out to @Texas Splash and @JJ_Tex who both live in Texas can provide you with some more feedback.

 

[JJ_Tex]

I most have used Jandy and Pentair equipment. Maybe by giving a call out to @Texas Splash and @JJ_Tex who both live in Texas can provide you with some more feedback.

Sorry, I'm a Pentair guy and do not know much about Hayward other than they are one of the big 3 pool equipment manufacturers (along with Pentair and Jandy).

 

[Texas Splash]

I have a Hayward filter, but it's small and doesn't really apply here. The 4-cart proposed would be just as good as the Pentair 4-cart version noted above, so you're covered with filtration either way. The heater might be something to get more opinions on, but I don't heat, so I'm useless on that topic.

 

[superuser]

I inherited Hayward equipment, so far it's been fine for the about 9 months I've been here. Had to fix the heater due to water incursion into the control panel, that's a poor design IMHO (~$15, but not really a DIY thing). It operates well and heats the pool fine. My 4-cart filter is holding up and functioning fine at 10 years old, but I did change out the gauge because it was yellowed / UV damaged. Still worked fine though. Skimmers are solid, no cracks or anything. One weir door was a little sticky but easily adjusted ($0). Pump motor has been replaced once by previous owner at about the 5 year mark I believe, no idea what caused the failure. Then replaced a second time by me this spring due to a brownout. That's not a fault of the equipment though, that's a problem with our power delivery. About 600 bucks for the motor, plus 50'ish for a new pump seal kit while I had it apart. The pump is pleasantly quiet, I can't even hear it from poolside. My valves are all Jandy NeverLube, they work fine and look to be original.

 

[Annoulini]

I have a Hayward filter, but it's small and doesn't really apply here. The 4-cart proposed would be just as good as the Pentair 4-cart version noted above, so you're covered with filtration either way. The heater might be something to get more opinions on, but I don't heat, so I'm useless on that topic.

Thank you for taking a look, is there anything else that stands out in the proposals? We are leaning towards the PB that uses Hayward equipment.

 

[Annoulini]

I inherited Hayward equipment, so far it's been fine for the about 9 months I've been here. Had to fix the heater due to water incursion into the control panel, that's a poor design IMHO (~$15, but not really a DIY thing). It operates well and heats the pool fine. My 4-cart filter is holding up and functioning fine at 10 years old, but I did change out the gauge because it was yellowed / UV damaged. Still worked fine though. Skimmers are solid, no cracks or anything. One weir door was a little sticky but easily adjusted ($0). Pump motor has been replaced once by previous owner at about the 5 year mark I believe, no idea what caused the failure. Then replaced a second time by me this spring due to a brownout. That's not a fault of the equipment though, that's a problem with our power delivery. About 600 bucks for the motor, plus 50'ish for a new pump seal kit while I had it apart. The pump is pleasantly quiet, I can't even hear it from poolside. My valves are all Jandy NeverLube, they work fine and look to be original.

That’s great to hear, I believe both PB are using Jandy never lube valves. All and all it sounds like a reliable brand. We are leaning towards the PB that uses Hayward equipment and that was our hesitation.

 

[Texas Splash]

Looks like you are in pretty good shape.