Cloudy water after sodium carbonate added

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YouRang

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Jun 2, 2015
23
The Woodlands, TX
I have cloudy water after adding sodium carbonate to raise TA from 60-80. I just tested and here are my results using TF-100 test kit:

FC - 2.5
CH - 350
pH - 8.2, needs about 32oz to get back to 7.8
TA - 80
CYA - 50
salt - 3100
Borates - 0
74*
CSI - .39

I'm adding some bleach to get around 5 on FC and 32oz of MA. I raised TA from 60 to 80 by adding sodium carbonate last Sunday. I'm still cloudy. How? Why? Are my problems from adding sodium carbonate rather than baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)?
 
YouRang said:
My pool has been cloudy for a week. Agreed on TA at 60 is fine. I brought TA up so I could lower pH to 7.5 and still have balanced CSI. Is my logic flawed?

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Not necessarily but why are you targeting a specific pH like 7.5? For what purpose?

Too often pool owners chase a specific pH value under some notion that a specific pH value is desirable. The truth is pool water is perfectly comfortable and safe to swim in as well as fine for equipment at any value between 7.2 and 7.8. If you had a pH of 7.6 and a TA of 60 and the pH was stable then there is no reason to change the pH.

If you arbitrarily try to target a pH value higher or lower than where it naturally wants to go, you will be constantly adding chemicals. In my own pool, the water always has rising pH but if I maintain a low TA then I can minimize the amount of acid my pool needs. For me, I don't try to drive the pH any lower than 7.6 and I don't adjust the pH until it rises above 7.8. With that, my acid additions are reduced to a few cups of acid every 10-14 days.


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Trying to use a TA of 80 and a pH of 7.5 will create too much carbon dioxide which will off gas and raise the pH.

Then you add acid to lower the pH, which lowers the TA, so you add bicarb to raise the TA, which creates more carbon dioxide.

It's a never ending battle.

However, if you use a pH of 7.8 and a TA of 60, you get a balanced CSI with a low enough amount of carbon dioxide that everything stays stable.

The carbonate from sodium carbonate combines with calcium to create calcium carbonate, which clouds the water and can form scale.

In my opinion it really is not needed. As long ad the TA is high enough, the pH will rise on its own within 24 hours due to off gassing of CO2.

If the TA is not high enough, just bump it up a bit and the ph will be good within 24 hours.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Not necessarily but why are you targeting a specific pH like 7.5? For what purpose?

Too often pool owners chase a specific pH value under some notion that a specific pH value is desirable. The truth is pool water is perfectly comfortable and safe to swim in as well as fine for equipment at any value between 7.2 and 7.8. If you had a pH of 7.6 and a TA of 60 and the pH was stable then there is no reason to change the pH.

If you arbitrarily try to target a pH value higher or lower than where it naturally wants to go, you will be constantly adding chemicals. In my own pool, the water always has rising pH but if I maintain a low TA then I can minimize the amount of acid my pool needs. For me, I don't try to drive the pH any lower than 7.6 and I don't adjust the pH until it rises above 7.8. With that, my acid additions are reduced to a few cups of acid every 10-14 days.


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I haven't found a TA level where my pH is stable, so I was experimenting a little. I'm trashing my sodium carbonate and sticking with TA of 60 and pH at 7.8. I have new quartz plaster (2 months ago) and this isn't helping my pH values either. At least I hope new plater is the culprit.

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JamesW said:
Trying to use a TA of 80 and a pH of 7.5 will create too much carbon dioxide which will off gas and raise the pH.

Then you add acid to lower the pH, which lowers the TA, so you add bicarb to raise the TA, which creates more carbon dioxide.

It's a never ending battle.

However, if you use a pH of 7.8 and a TA of 60, you get a balanced CSI with a low enough amount of carbon dioxide that everything stays stable.

The carbonate from sodium carbonate combines with calcium to create calcium carbonate, which clouds the water and can form scale.

In my opinion it really is not needed. As long ad the TA is high enough, the pH will rise on its own within 24 hours due to off gassing of CO2.

If the TA is not high enough, just bump it up a bit and the ph will be good within 24 hours.
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Great info James. Thank you.

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With new plaster your pH is always going to rise no matter what. Just keep plenty of acid on hand, keep your TA low and target your pH to be no lower than 7.6 and only add acid when it rises above 7.8.

Your pool will be on a steady diet of acid for at least the next 12-18 months, that just how new plaster is.


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