I wasn't promoting Leslie's method, I was just concurring what they told be with resources from the manufacturer website since someone said they never said how much chlorine to maintain for fear of lawsuits which just isn't true.
Chrolrine with Ozone
- Thread starter GregTR
- Start date
I guess the main attraction of ozone is that it is a strong oxidizer and people hope offloading oxidation from chlorine will result in a net reduction in daily FC usage. But from chem_geeks posts the daily chlorine loss in a swimming pool due to oxidation is very low. So off loading oxidation from chlorine to ozone would have little benefit.
In fact since ozone also oxidizes chlorine, I suspect a well maintained pool probably would show a net negative improvement in daily FC loss.
There might be value in a spa that has much higher oxidation requirements. And there might be some value after a pool party or major rainstorm to handle the temporary increase in oxidation load. It would be interesting to test after a pool party to see if one could quantify a net saving. It takes about $1-$2 worth of chlorine to handle most pool parties so the ozone system would have to be pretty cheap though.
In fact since ozone also oxidizes chlorine, I suspect a well maintained pool probably would show a net negative improvement in daily FC loss.
There might be value in a spa that has much higher oxidation requirements. And there might be some value after a pool party or major rainstorm to handle the temporary increase in oxidation load. It would be interesting to test after a pool party to see if one could quantify a net saving. It takes about $1-$2 worth of chlorine to handle most pool parties so the ozone system would have to be pretty cheap though.
OK, just as I promised, here is the test data from my measurements.
No Ozone:
9PM - 5.6 PPM
4AM - 5.0 PPM
8PM - 1.0 PPM
Ozone:
9PM - 7.6 PPM
4AM - 6.8 PPM
8PM - 2.0 PPM
The second day the sun and temps were a bit higher, my pool reached 95 degrees itself and I started with a much higher TC reading than the day before (my bad, I added 3 lbs instead of 2lbs of cal-hypo 70%). I'm wondering how much TC loss I would suffer if I started at a lower level instead of 7.6 PPM to begin with.
For now, I'll keep the Ozone on as I'm not sure if it has the same detrimental effect at lower TC as it does at higher levels. I will try to maintain around 2.5 PPM which should be fine with 30 CYA. I'll gradually raise my CYA to 40 and maintain 3.0 PPM once I hit 40 CYA after my last 5lbs of 3" trichlor runs through the Nature 2 inline chlorinator.
I did confirm that the manufacturer suggests 0.5-1.0 TC levels to be maintained with my Ozonator, however my question is how can one maintain that level with confidence and precision without the TC ever dipping down to 0? When my pool burns through 3PPM+ of chlorine in a day, how can you set it to 1.0PPM in the morning and still have residual chlorine by the time you come home in the afternoon? Never mind the effectiveness of chlorine varies with CYA therefore running stabilizer one definitely needs higher TC values.
I also can't help but wonder how can someone maintain a 35,000 gallon pool with 3" trichlor pucks? Even at a conservative estimate of 3 PPM daily chlorine consumption you'd need a pound of the stuff a day and that's not possible to dissolve that much in a single day not to mention the 1.9 PPM CYA increase every day would mean CYA through the roof in a month.
I finally started up my Stenner bleach feed for my pool so I should be able to maintain a steady flow of bleach during the day which should allow me to run a more consistent TC level throughout the day allowing me to run a lower, 3.0 TC instead of having to buffer the pool with TC every night so it would not dip to 0 by the time I get home from work.
No Ozone:
9PM - 5.6 PPM
4AM - 5.0 PPM
8PM - 1.0 PPM
Ozone:
9PM - 7.6 PPM
4AM - 6.8 PPM
8PM - 2.0 PPM
The second day the sun and temps were a bit higher, my pool reached 95 degrees itself and I started with a much higher TC reading than the day before (my bad, I added 3 lbs instead of 2lbs of cal-hypo 70%). I'm wondering how much TC loss I would suffer if I started at a lower level instead of 7.6 PPM to begin with.
For now, I'll keep the Ozone on as I'm not sure if it has the same detrimental effect at lower TC as it does at higher levels. I will try to maintain around 2.5 PPM which should be fine with 30 CYA. I'll gradually raise my CYA to 40 and maintain 3.0 PPM once I hit 40 CYA after my last 5lbs of 3" trichlor runs through the Nature 2 inline chlorinator.
I did confirm that the manufacturer suggests 0.5-1.0 TC levels to be maintained with my Ozonator, however my question is how can one maintain that level with confidence and precision without the TC ever dipping down to 0? When my pool burns through 3PPM+ of chlorine in a day, how can you set it to 1.0PPM in the morning and still have residual chlorine by the time you come home in the afternoon? Never mind the effectiveness of chlorine varies with CYA therefore running stabilizer one definitely needs higher TC values.
I also can't help but wonder how can someone maintain a 35,000 gallon pool with 3" trichlor pucks? Even at a conservative estimate of 3 PPM daily chlorine consumption you'd need a pound of the stuff a day and that's not possible to dissolve that much in a single day not to mention the 1.9 PPM CYA increase every day would mean CYA through the roof in a month.
I finally started up my Stenner bleach feed for my pool so I should be able to maintain a steady flow of bleach during the day which should allow me to run a more consistent TC level throughout the day allowing me to run a lower, 3.0 TC instead of having to buffer the pool with TC every night so it would not dip to 0 by the time I get home from work.
You are asking all the right questions in your last post. The answer to most of those is that you can't.
A stated FC level is worthless without a corresponding recommended CYA level.
And you are right that maintaining any pool with strictly trichlor tablets in Texas is not going to work out. In general the only way you can get away with only using tablets is if you have a very short swim season and drain a lot of water for the winter and / or you get a lot of rain.
A stated FC level is worthless without a corresponding recommended CYA level.
And you are right that maintaining any pool with strictly trichlor tablets in Texas is not going to work out. In general the only way you can get away with only using tablets is if you have a very short swim season and drain a lot of water for the winter and / or you get a lot of rain.
I am in Houston, Texas. I have my puck feeder set to 50 percent. Run my pump 8 hours low, 8 hours medium and 4 hours on high. Half the size of your pool though... I have an Ozonator too.
I am maintaining .5-1.0 with no problems so far.
I am maintaining .5-1.0 with no problems so far.
cfherrman
TFP Guide
That sounds like a pool store number if so it’s not reliable. If it’s a test strip then those are not accurate either.
There are 2 recommended kits the TF-100 or Taylor K-6000c
I hope you don’t run into any problems but just be aware that low of a FC could lead to algae.
Do you dump any other pool store potions into your pool on a weekly/monthly basis?
If you get a chance read through pool school. I used to buy stuff for our previous pool and now that I’ve educated myself on water chemistry and balancing I’m amazed at the sparkle in our new pool.
It was a pool store number. My test strip confirmed that number. You suppose that all pool stores equipment and strips are inaccurate?
Nope, no pool store potions have been purchased.
I’ve taken a water sample to 3 local stores here in Spring TX and all three had different results. I think the Ph was the closest between them. They’d then print out a sheet and tell me what I’d need. I used to listen to that advice on the old pool not anymore.
I'll try some different stores around Katy and see how far off they are. They have given me good advice so far. They are the ones that told me about the option of lower chlorine levels and told me all the potions I didn't need to buy after I told them I have a Ozonator.
When industry talks about 0.5-1.0 chlorine level without a corresponding CYA ratio they are always assuming no CYA. That is actually a LOT of active chlorine, equivalent to SLAM levels when CYA is in the water. From a sanitation viewpoint the Ozonator isn't doing anything for you if that much chlorine is needed in the water.
You are right, maintaining 0.5-1 FC is hard. Especially having it everywhere in the pool (areas of poor circulation etc) and all the time. Most public pools use several times that amount (2-3ppm) so they have some leeway for real life. They are also indoors so the sun isn't killing half the FC every 30-40 minutes.
Outdoors, with the sun, it is almost impossible. You'd have to be adding chlorine every half hour. That's why we use CYA, it buffers 95% (or more) the chlorine keeping it inactive and in reserve and only releasing it when the active levels of chlorine fall below a certain level determined by your FC/CYA ratio.
Take CYA=30 for example. At SLAM level that is 12ppm. But only about 0.6ppm of that is active chlorine. The remainder is inactive and held in reserve bound to the CYA to be released steadily as the 0.6ppm is consumed. So for your question of how does one keep such a small amount always present throughout the day, the answer is CYA. It does the job for you.
cfherrman
TFP Guide
How much of that is FC, or cc?
The accuracy of that is suspect as other brands that measure the same way have accuracy problems. Hanna makes a FC version you should use that instead if you wish to continue with them
This is why I think running a 3GPD Stenner setup with a variable speed pump at super low speed setting 23-24 hours a day makes sense. I can dispense chlorine to the pool during the day at the same rate as it's getting consumed essentially and always maintain a relatively constant chlorine level without the daily swings of single daily dosing for practically no money (about $0.60/day for electricity for the pumps). I'm going to give this setup a chance and see how well it does.
Ultimately I think I'll bite the bullet and spend the $5K on a true PPT sensor setup that will monitor chlorine levels and adjust it automatically without user intervention.
With 40 PPT CYA I shall be running about 3 PPT FC so that's what I'll be aiming for on my pool.
Ultimately I think I'll bite the bullet and spend the $5K on a true PPT sensor setup that will monitor chlorine levels and adjust it automatically without user intervention.
With 40 PPT CYA I shall be running about 3 PPT FC so that's what I'll be aiming for on my pool.
The forum sees very few of those but I believe it to be a DPD digital tester.....limited to 2.5 ppm.
Measuring Total Chlorine is not what we look for. Free Chlorine is the important number but I think the Free Chlorine version of that meter still uses DPD testing.......not good enough for the accuracy you need
Measuring Total Chlorine is not what we look for. Free Chlorine is the important number but I think the Free Chlorine version of that meter still uses DPD testing.......not good enough for the accuracy you need
The Taylor kits require matching light shades of pink to determine chlorine levels. Even holding up to light is not always conclusive and the measurement tolerance is roughly ±0.5 PPM.
This units tolerance is ±0.03 PPM tolerance. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, it only goes up to 3.5ppm so it would not be suitable for the TFP community since most run levels higher than 3ppm.
I had this for my aquarium already where Total Chlorine tolerance levels are more critical being fish are so sensitive.
I run an Ozonator so my target levels are within range of this unit.
I have read how to use this same unit to determine free chlorine with FC reagents and have ordered some.
Just for fun...
Bottled water (Nestle Brand)
Tap water (Fulshear, Texas)
- May 3, 2014
- 62,690
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
TFP only recommends the use of FAS-DPD testing for FC and CC. There is no color matching involved when using the proper test kit.
Greg,
I wish to apologize for allowing focus to be removed from you in this thread. Somehow or another things went allow over the place and multiple discussions started to occur. If you’re gaining anything from these side discussions I give you credit as my attention span turned off after about the third HiJack. Although I may not be the one to completely assist you, I’m gonna make sure attention gets redirected to YOU in this thread. I’d like to start by doing two things,
1. I ask all to focus on the Op’s (GregGR) Questions and comments as this is HIS thread. If you’re looking simply to argue, go elsewhere and start your own thread. I’ll make sure Greg sees it in case he’s interested in viewing.
2. Greg, a question for you although you may have already answered it (again, my attention went bye bye), you are using a sterner to add chlorine to your pool correct? If so, where are you buying the bleach from? Also you mentioned you were concerned about the amount of FC you used per day, what’s your CYA level???
I wish to apologize for allowing focus to be removed from you in this thread. Somehow or another things went allow over the place and multiple discussions started to occur. If you’re gaining anything from these side discussions I give you credit as my attention span turned off after about the third HiJack. Although I may not be the one to completely assist you, I’m gonna make sure attention gets redirected to YOU in this thread. I’d like to start by doing two things,
1. I ask all to focus on the Op’s (GregGR) Questions and comments as this is HIS thread. If you’re looking simply to argue, go elsewhere and start your own thread. I’ll make sure Greg sees it in case he’s interested in viewing.
2. Greg, a question for you although you may have already answered it (again, my attention went bye bye), you are using a sterner to add chlorine to your pool correct? If so, where are you buying the bleach from? Also you mentioned you were concerned about the amount of FC you used per day, what’s your CYA level???