Chlorine availabilty and cost - is it time to convert to salt

[bobjdan]

Last year it was very difficult and expensive to get chlorine and I swtched to Calcium Hypochlorite. At the time it was about $150 for a 50 lb. bucket. Now it is $280 and who knows what it will be when demand increases at the start of pool season. I have an estimate of $2042 for installation including salt and anode - Hayward Goldline Aqua Rite Expert Line + TCELL925 25k Extended Cell 4yr warranty.

Assumimng I would have to use 3 50 gallon buckets at $280 or 3 HDX 128 oz. bottles of chlorine that is now advertised @ $13 but they don't have any that comes close to $700 or about a 3 year payoff. I know that CAl hypo messes with PH and Calcium hardness so I'm haveing to adjut PH quite often and I have to go pick up the chlorine it seems like a good idea to convert. Looking through the thread on salt water it seems that it isn't quite as easy to maintain salt water pools as often cited.

I have a few questions.
Is it really that much less time consuming than chlorine?

How about if I leave town for 7-10 days. When I've done it in the past I just dump 1 hockey puck/day or a bit less for a longer time. It does raise the cya but since I leep it around 30-40 it hasn't caused any problem.

I have iron in the water. Is that a problem?

I have many plants on either side of a 3 ft. concreate decking. Is the salt level high enough to harm them?

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Mdragger88]

It is recommended to get a cell rated at least 2x’s your pool volume.
You have a 25k gal pool so that would be at least a 50k rated cell. You may could get away with a t15( 940 extended life) as that is the largest Hayward has available.
If you don’t have other hayward automation or aren’t brand loyal there are several circupool units that have more chlorine output than the largest Hayward.
If you have existing pentair equipment/automation the ic60 would be the best option.
Filling out your signature in detail helps you get the best answers.
The reason for this “oversizing” is that the manufacturer’s rating is based on running at 100% 24/7
You don’t want to have to run your cell (nor your pump) at max 24/7.
Here’s a nice comparison chart so u can compare chlorine outputs instead of just ratings. You will see that 1 manufacturer’s 40k cell will have a different output than another’s 40k cell.

Compare and Review Saltwater Chlorine Generator Prices and Features | DSP

www.discountsaltpool.com

Whether u are there or not your swg will just plug away making fc unless there is a mechanical failure of course. It does the daily additions for u & results in less trips & time acquiring liquid chlorine or the like. Basically you are buying all your chlorine up front.
Regardless of your chlorination method the Recommended Levels Should be monitored via regular testing its just if u miss a day or two it’s got your back. No method is set it & forget it. If it’s claimed to be it’s a farse. I do feel it’s much more forgiving with a swg so long as you check on your equipment & confirm it’s functional on a regular basis. Not alot of adjusting daily.
I generally add a few pucks in a floater & increase my fc level for a week away incase of power failure, heavy debris from a storm or some such. Its good insurance if u have a swg or not.
If you have an iron problem it will arise wether u have a swg or not.
Here’s some info on dealing with that

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

The amount of salt the pool needs to operate a swg (around 3500ppm - 1/3 as salty as tears) is not going to hurt the foliage anymore than the chlorine level would.
In fact all other forms of chlorine add salt to the pool so many find their salt level to be much higher than they realize. For this reason it’s advised to test your salt level prior to adding so you don’t put too much.

 

[bobjdan]

Thanks so much for your thourough reply. I have a lot more research to do now. Regarding iron, the liner is stained enough that I doubt I'll do anything about it now. I will need a new liner in a year or two, or after I pay for a salt water conversion.

I wonder why my pool company didn't mention a larger salt system. I've used them for 40 years and they are probably the best pool company in town, but they pump the same BS as the rest of them and I only use them when I have to.

 

[ajw22]

or after I pay for a salt water conversion.

There is no “salt water conversion “.

What do you think you need to pay for other then the SWG, installation, and salt?

 

[Mdragger88]

I wonder why my pool company didn't mention a larger salt system.

Many don’t- especially if they generally don’t like selling them in the 1st place & most of their sales come from expensive forms of chlorine & other products.
A pool with an adequately sized swg leaves little to be purchased from them after the initial sale aside from fairly cheap products like Muriatic acid & salt. Some are just misinformed as to what is possibly required daily from the system since they go by the old outdated standards of maintaining very low fc chlorine levels & disregard the fc/cya relationship & FC/CYA Levels.

You can use the PoolMath app effects of adding feature to plug in the different swg’s to determine which will leave you with plenty of fc daily based on the pump runtime & swg percentage you desire. Most pools use approx. 2-4 ppm fc / day. You will still need some liquid chlorine on hand to give a quick boost to fc level in lieu of heavy bather loads or other increased demand situations as a swg puts out a small amount steadily over a long period of time even if the settings are increased. Swg’s are designed to maintain daily target fc levels anything beyond that should be manually supplemented.
On another note-
Cal hypo doesn’t really effect ph
Nor does liquid chlorine or a swg.
However, trichlor & dichlor products are acidic & lower ph so without them you may find yourself having to add more acid to keep ph in line. Allowing ta to fall to around 60 ppm can help buffer the frequency of ph rise resulting in less frequent acid additions.

 

[bobjdan]

If I recall correctly, I think I read at Leslies Pool supply where I get the Cal Hypo that it raised the PH. All I know is that I bought much more muriatic acid last summer using the cal hyo to lower PH than when I was using HDX chlorine from Home Depot and rarely had to adjust PH. At times last hyear I had trouble finding the higher Baume, or at least the ones that actually said what it was on the bottle of an off brand.. I also tend to keep my chlorine at the upper end of the range because the only 2 times I've had algae since using TFP for at least 5-7 yeasrs is when a bad storm somehow defeated the chlorine that was still at the middle of the range the morning afterwards.

Now I have to figure out if I want to politely tell them I want some other salt system than what they recommended. I do have a Hayward sand filter and I doubt they sell anything else. I've had mostly good service from them for the last 43 years, but looking at some of the reviews they aren't that great compared to some of the newer ones in the area. I suppose I need to shop around and see what shakes out.

 

[bobjdan]

There is no “salt water conversion “.

What do you think you need to pay for other then the SWG, installation, and salt?

By that I meant the cost of moving from chlorine to salt and that is more than $2000. It's also a matter of how many years does it take to pay for itself and that is going to depend on what it cost, something that can be known vs. the unknown cost of chlorine the next few years. Going to salt could pay for itself in 2-3 years, assuming that chlorine availability remains constrained and the current high price of Cal Poly. The current price listed at Home Depot is 50% higher than 2020 and shows no availabilty. When you'r 81 years old you don't look at very long term scenarios.

 

[superuser]

Are you comfortable cutting and joining PVC, and doing some simple wiring? You can install the system yourself and save some money. Circupool keeps your 7 year warranty even on self-installs.

Going out of town is no problem with a salt system, it's a simple matter of making sure your levels are where they need to be and ... well .. going on your trip. My pH tends to creep up and stabilize around 7.8 to 7.9, which puts my saturation just a hair above zero. So when we go out of town I just proactively dose a little acid in the pool, and check it when I get back. We travel a fair bit, half a dozen times a year, and I don't worry about the pool. The baskets and the robot might be a bit full when I get back, but the water stays nice and clear.

Hopefully your 81 years has you in good health, and you'll have many more ahead. Enjoy retirement!

 

[Mdragger88]

I have to wonder if the cal hypo u were using may have something xtra in it that increased ph? Often times they may say “plus” or something of that nature.
If u don’t already have Hayward automation there’s really no need to stick with Hayward for your swg.

As for cost vs bleach-
This is from back in the summer, I plan to diy my install

I just did a little figuring & even at today’s prices a swg comes out on top over the long term (for me at least). Still hopeful prices will fall a little by the time I can purchase next year.
View attachment 347893

 

[pjt]

Not only is a SWG cheaper, but it also saves you a lot of time and is very convenient. It's an easy decision.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

This is absolutely the easiest SWG set up I've seen- 55,000 gallon pool size. A true Do It Yourself SWG.

Circupool Core 55 Salt Chlorine Generator | Salt Water Chlorine Pool System

www.discountsaltpool.com

Your pool may very well contain all the salt you need, or close to it, so other than testing ahead of adding the device so you'll know.

Maddie

 

[bobjdan]

Lots of good ideas and I see no reason not to install it myself. I've glued many a pvc pipe and am handy around electricity. Now all I have to do is figure out what swg system to buy. Circulon sounds like a good deal but I wish that there was an explanation of the table headings and the * column.

 

[Mdragger88]

Which * are you referring to ?
If it’s the warranty* - it’s because they are prorated (each product page shows the details) most manufacturer’s have this especially if installed diy - circupool has some of the longest warranties when it comes to diy installs
If it’s the gallons rating * -its because that’s simply a manufacturer’s claim.
There’s no rule about what they can claim in relation to actual chlorine output so one company’s 40k rated cell can put out drastically less than another’s.
As for the table/chart headings - feel free to ask what specific things mean. We’re here to help.
Here’s a few comparisons based on your pool volume using PoolMath effects of adding. These are estimates & actual #s may vary.
Note the run time differences. Remember the more you run your cell the less time it will live . Most have about 10k hrs of life in them give or take.
This is why upsizing is generally worth it.
The average residential pool uses 2-4ppm fc per day.

 

[bobjdan]

I can't find any SWG UL40 or UL55

The things I had to figure out is what device would be relatively easy to install. I looked at the rj45, the rj45 plus, and the core 55. Although the core 55 looks easy to install I don'w have enough horizontal pipe to put it where I'd want it and I'd have to do a lot more rerouting to put it where I'd want it. www.discountsaltpool.com/ has the RJ60 Plus for $1 more than the RJ45 Plus so the RJ60 Plus seems like a no brainer. I saw in some older posts that discount salt pools has a good rep and they have offered that price for years, Any idea why it is so cheap? I know there havebeen problem posts on it, but that is probably true for most things related to pools.

I also have to figure out how to get AC to it. I have a timer but no outlet. There is one small knockout in the box But I don't know if there is room for the clamp to hold the wire. I'm also not sure if those long cables laying around meet code where I Ilive. Other than that, it looks fairly easy, but more than the 45 miniutes they talk about.

 

[Mdragger88]

UL 40 is the circupool universal 40 & ul 55 is the universal 55 - they look similar to the Hayward units (they are direct replacements options ) & are the “value priced” basic circupool swg option.
Many here have the rj’s & the cores as well & are quite happy with them. It really just depends on what features / bells & whistles u want as well as the type of install you want. For instance With the core the “brain/controls” is attached to the cell which is great if you don’t want to have to mount something to the wall or don’t have a wall near your pad.
You definitely should wire it so that when the pump is off the swg is off as well- this prevents the possibility of an explosion due to chlorine gas build up if there is no flow. The built in flow switch alone should not be relied upon for this & is considered a secondary safety measure.
You could always add an outlet next to the timer that is wired that way & is dedicated to the swg or just run the hardwired cord through a length of pipe (this also protects it from the sun).
As far as cost goes - none of them are cheap per say but in comparison to Hayward, pentair, & Jandy, they do cost less. Primarily because they are a value diy brand & also they don’t have the automation options that Hayward, pentair,& Jandy have. That is why they are a good option for someone who doesn’t need that/want to pay for that or hasn’t already bought into one of those systems.

 

[bobjdan]

I never paid much attention to the UL systems because of the 4 yr warranty. I spent some time this weekend looking at the different systems and with the "buy the Highest SWG for $1 RJ 60 + UL 55 and the core 55 and RJ 60 are only $100 apart whereas the UL 55 is $400-500 cheaper. That makes the Core 55 more attractive, but I need to look harder at how I could mount it anywhere other than on the wall behind my pump, filter, and heater.

Which * are you referring to ?
If it’s the warranty* - it’s because they are prorated (each product page shows the details) most manufacturer’s have this especially if installed diy - circupool has some of the longest warranties when it comes to diy installs
If it’s the gallons rating * -its because that’s simply a manufacturer’s claim.
There’s no rule about what they can claim in relation to actual chlorine output so one company’s 40k rated cell can put out drastically less than another’s.
As for the table/chart headings - feel free to ask what specific things mean. We’re here to help.
Here’s a few comparisons based on your pool volume using PoolMath effects of adding. These are estimates & actual #s may vary.
Note the run time differences. Remember the more you run your cell the less time it will live . Most have about 10k hrs of life in them give or take.
This is why upsizing is generally worth it.
The average residential pool uses 2-4ppm fc per day.
View attachment 389594View attachment 389595View attachment 389596View attachment 389597

I don't see how you get to that info. I have the app on my Android Phone (and on Desktop) and have the Pool setup completed went through all the usual legal stuff but see no way to do anything with it.. I saw something about a subscription but if that is necessaray no way to pay it. Do I need a subscription to use it? It's as clear as mud.

 

[bobjdan]

I never paid much attention to the Now that I have spent more time looking at the various systems in the Circupool Universal systems because of the 4 year warranty. I spent some time this weekend looking at the different systems and with the "buy the Highest SWG for $1 for the RJ 60 + and the core 55 are only $100 apart whereas the UL 55 is $400-500 cheaper. I don't see a good option to install the Core 55 anywhere other than the wall behind the pump, filter, and furnace, but I need to spend some more time looking at my options.

 

[Mdragger88]

I never paid much attention to the UL systems because of the 4 yr warranty. I spent some time this weekend looking at the different systems and with the "buy the Highest SWG for $1 RJ 60 + UL 55 and the core 55 and RJ 60 are only $100 apart whereas the UL 55 is $400-500 cheaper. That makes the Core 55 more attractive, but I need to look harder at how I could mount it anywhere other than on the wall behind my pump, filter, and heater.

I don't see how you get to that info. I have the app on my Android Phone (and on Desktop) and have the Pool setup completed went through all the usual legal stuff but see no way to do anything with it.. I saw something about a subscription but if that is necessaray no way to pay it. Do I need a subscription to use it? It's as clear as mud.

Are u referring to PoolMath ?
If so You don’t need a subscription to use it - just to keep more than one log entry via the app.
The effects of adding tool is in the hamburger menu of the app. For demonstrating purposes I manually put in the chlorine lbs/day for each swg (they are listed in discount salt pools comparison chart.) but most major manufacturer’s units are available by just clicking the search icon. It just helps you see how many hours per day you would need to run a specific swg to create a certain amount of free chlorine in your pool.
As far as the warranties go - they are all prorated in various ways-
to get to them you have to go on circupool.com, click a product, then view its manual. It’s like mattress shopping lol - nothing is apples to apples! The same goes for Hayward & pentair- its a definite search to find the warranties & how they apply to online purchases/diy vs buying from a brick & mortar retailer.
Many here are all for diy & circupool doesn’t penalize that with their warranties which is nice. You’ll likely be quite happy with any of the 55-60k rated options. Posting pics of your equipment pad & surrounding area will get u more accurate advice about specific installation options.

 

[bobjdan]

I finally deletd the app on my phone and loaded it again and now I get what you have. I've also have found the vertical installation kit for the SJ + series and think I can get it to work if I can get my brain to picture it. Here is a pictue of my setup.



I think I can raise the vertical return pipe next to the word "for" in red high enough with or perhaps without the kit. The one thing that I can't do is make a mistake cutting that return pipe from that verical to the T that goes to the pool. That might require a call to the pool company. I don't think I can figure it out unless I get the parts and put them together with no cement. My brain already hurts.

 

[Chuckiechan]

By that I meant the cost of moving from chlorine to salt and that is more than $2000. It's also a matter of how many years does it take to pay for itself and that is going to depend on what it cost, something that can be known vs. the unknown cost of chlorine the next few years. Going to salt could pay for itself in 2-3 years, assuming that chlorine availability remains constrained and the current high price of Cal Poly. The current price listed at Home Depot is 50% higher than 2020 and shows no availabilty. When you'r 81 years old you don't look at very long term scenarios.

I would like suggest paying less attention to cost of swg vs no swg. Just buy a good one. Pools are an expense. So get a good swg, learn to prioritize getting your numbers in line and appreciate the convenience! Pretty soon you will look back and realize what a hassle chlorine and tabs are. I would not be surprised to find out an swg system costs more than non swg, but not that much more.