Chipping around safety cover anchors?

[grod001]

Concrete poured in early Oct. Tarp cover with water bags installed a couple weeks later. PB unexpectedly came out last week (day before Thanksgiving) to replace with a mesh cover (I was fine waiting until next year).

The week before holes were drilled, the day time high temperatures were mid-30s, and nighttime lows were in the 20s. The day of anchor drilling, the high was mid-40s, and part of the deck is in shade. Water bags (when removed before drilling) were frozen solid.

A small sample of the resulting chipped concrete shown in attached images, on over 80% of the anchors. In the second image, you can even see aggregate exposed. Our mason said he was frustrated to see these pictures and he can fix the concrete with a day of labor. PB instead says not to worry; they aren't done with the job and will be installing brass collars in the Spring.

I want the best end result. If it were you, would you have the PB install collars or have the mason repair and have the PB pay? Or a better option?

Thanks!

 

[Newdude]

This one is for wood decks but you'll get the idea. If the plate is big enough, it doesn't matter how rough the hole is below.

If they use a core bit, the hole comes out clean but it's also time consuming so they often use a regular mason bit and make a mess.

It sounds like your PB already factored all that.

 

[Bperry]

Concrete poured in early Oct. Tarp cover with water bags installed a couple weeks later. PB unexpectedly came out last week (day before Thanksgiving) to replace with a mesh cover (I was fine waiting until next year).

The week before holes were drilled, the day time high temperatures were mid-30s, and nighttime lows were in the 20s. The day of anchor drilling, the high was mid-40s, and part of the deck is in shade. Water bags (when removed before drilling) were frozen solid.

A small sample of the resulting chipped concrete shown in attached images, on over 80% of the anchors. In the second image, you can even see aggregate exposed. Our mason said he was frustrated to see these pictures and he can fix the concrete with a day of labor. PB instead says not to worry; they aren't done with the job and will be installing brass collars in the Spring.

I want the best end result. If it were you, would you have the PB install collars or have the mason repair and have the PB pay? Or a better option?

Thanks!

View attachment 464029

View attachment 464031

It doesn’t help much but there’s really no way to repair that, other than some patch cement on top which won’t blend in perfectly. So you’de have to decide what looks better, a patch on top or just leaving it as-is. I didn’t know they had collars that go over the anchors. Not sure if I like those or not.

 

[ajw22]

I would leave it alone and ignore the chips.

No one except for your dogs will get down on their hands and knees and be examining the concrete around your cover anchors.

 

[JamesW]

There are several reasons that you can get chipping or spalling.

1) Defective concrete can be flaky or brittle near the top.

2) Drilling while cold increases the risk due to the concrete being more brittle.

3) The brass anchors have a ridge around the top that is larger than the hole so that the anchor will have an interference fit to keep it secure.

The problem is that the anchor is metal and the concrete is brittle and the concrete gets damaged as you hammer the anchor into the hole.

The spalling and chipping happen about half the time from drilling and about half the time from hammering in the anchor.

To reduce or prevent spalling during the anchor installation process, you can sand down the brass anchor ridges *some* and the concrete top edge so that it is slightly beveled.

Most likely, the manufacturer won’t approve of sanding down the brass as it is no longer factory condition.

Their argument is that the anchor will not be secure because you need the interference.

However, as you can see, there is no interference around the anchors when the concrete spalls away, so the argument is not valid.

In theory the ridges are supposed to bite into the concrete, but in practice, the concrete just gets damaged because the ridges are too big and aggressive and the concrete is hard and brittle and it just flakes away.

In my opinion, the brass top ridge is too big and it can be sanded down slightly to prevent spalling while making the anchor more secure.

Note that I am not recommending sanding the brass unless you get specific permission from the manufacturer because they might not approve of altering the hardware from original factory condition.

The way that your concrete was finished makes it susceptible to chipping and spalling.

For any risk of spalling or chipping, the best thing to do is to use a core drill and not a hammerdrill.

As soon as they drilled the first hole and saw chipping, they should have switched to a core drill.

You can use the brass escutcheon plates to cover the damaged areas, but I think that installers need to be more careful and prevent chipping as much as possible.

In my opinion, the escutcheon plates are ugly and I would want the concrete fixed.

 

[JamesW]

Using a core drill or sanding every anchor and every hole will take significantly more time and most installers are trying to get the jobs done as fast as possible and they don’t want to take the time to do a better job.

The job might take an extra hour or two to do if the installer does the extra steps to create the better result and this might cost an extra $100.00 to $300.00.

Part of the problem is that installers don’t want to have the discussion with a customer about quality and cost.

 

[Timmbo23]

Chipping is normal and common. Use these during the summer months:

HOME | CAP-ITS | Pool Deck Anchor Covers | United States

Discover how CAP-ITS can cover chipped pool deck anchors and spruce up your pool deck apperance

www.cap-its.net

 

[JamesW]

Chipping is normal and common.

It’s normal and common because most companies don’t care enough to take the time to avoid the problem.

 

[Bperry]

If it helps the OP any more, I just looked at mine and they are also chipped in varying amounts. I didn’t notice it until now since the deck surface has worn so much over the years. It’ll probably get less noticeable over time.

 

[grod001]

Thanks for all the detailed responses!
As I see it, I have a couple concerns here:

1. Integrity/function
2. Aesthetics

For integrity/function, my biggest concern are the deeper ones; specifically water/dirt/etc getting in and sitting in there (especially over the winter when water/ice will more likely just sit in there for long periods). E.g. ones like the following image, where you can see a good amount of depth has been exposed (see the bottom left area, where a significant amount of the anchor's ridge is exposed):


From an aesthetics perspective, none of the options have me thrilled, but until I see the plates the PB is planning to use and feel them underfoot, I'm not sure how acceptable or not they'll be, especially after all the $ we spent on this project.

Some of the anchors aren't chipped enough that I'd notice without getting on my hands/knees, but those bigger ones were very much noticeable when I first walked around the deck, and that is what inspired me to start looking closer at the rest.

For the ones that are both deep and wide, I may have them use both options: 1) fill in the concrete to mitigate water pooling and 2) cover with the plate.

Thanks!

 

[grod001]

For full context, the masonry company's owner sent me the email in the quotes below, when I initially shared a larger set of example pictures with him. I've been thrilled with the mason's meticulous work (rarity these days), and I have a good amount of trust in them, both on a personal and professional level.

However, I'm frankly quite fatigued from all the GC work (catching mistakes before it is too late, ensuring things are done the way I want vs the easiest path for the subs, etc) I had to take on over the last few months during this project with most of the other parties involved. So if I go the path the mason suggests below, hopefully the battle is worth it. I could've said this all has been bitter sweet, if we got to use the pool after it was finished. But we didn't due to how late in the season everything wrapped up (including a brand-new non-functional heater that we fought with various parties to get fixed for most of Oct into early Nov, amongst a litany of other issues not worth mentioning that I have unfortunately come to expect from contractors)... So right now, it feels mostly bitter

Bad news is,it’s frustrating to look at these pictures. Good news is we can fix this. To get the areas back to near perfect (YOUR AND OUR STANDARDS) I would have either myself or [my foreman] take on the task. It would be one guy about a days labor $880 and about $50 dollars in Material. I would prefer that you battle with who ever is on the hook for the payment so I can just concentrate on the fix. Rest easy we will get this looking good.

 

[sktn77a]

It's common, but not normal. Another frequent cause is a blunt concrete drill bit. Some instant cement mix will fill the chips and should blend in eventually (as the surface gets dirty/weathered).