Check valves placement to keep raised spa from slowly draining,

[Tfastle]

I will keep it short for now. Have a pool with raised spa, 8 years old, standard pluming for one pump but no make up for the spa pluming. The builder did not put in check valves to keep the spa from slowly losing water when the system is off. I have replaced the diverters on the jandy valves a few times and that helps for a while. While the diverters do an ok job it would be nice to have no water loss so I am considering installing the check valves myself. Before I remove a fence and dig everything up I would like to be sure that I am placing the check valves in the correct place.
I will attach a simple drawing the just includes pump, filter and pipes to and from the pad for the pool and spa on which I indicate where I think the check valves need to go. Until I remove a fence and dig out some pipes I can't really get pictures that represent it well at all.

I gather ideally I want check valves on both the intake and return sides of the pump:

On the intake side, the check valve needs to be on the pool (drain and skimmer) side of the pump intake diverter
On the return side, the check valve needs to be on spa side of that return diverter.
Of course, they need to be plumbed to flow the correct directions.

I have attached a simple drawing with just the basic components that are a factor (I think) with regard to this problem.

Before I start digging and cutting sections of pipe out I'd like to be sure that my plan is correct. And if I am correct I, then I will have one more question. If I am wrong ... then that question may be a moot point.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[ajw22]

Spa water siphons out to the pool through the SPA RETURN line. That is where you want to place your check valve.

There is no reason for a check valve on the POOL DRAIN line.

 

[Tfastle]

So in that case, I assume the water is coming from the from the spa via the hot tub return line, seeps by the diverter valve and flows through the pool return line and back into the pool? Which makes sense. But why wouldn't/couldn't that same thing be happening on the spa drain side? I'd much rather just do the one but as I thought about it, it seemed to me that it could be on either or both sides.

 

[Jimrahbe]

T,

The problem occurs on spillover spas, because the Return valve (or the make up valve) allows water to go to the spa when in the Pool mode.

If the Return valve is shut off, so that no water goes to the Spa, when in the Pool mode, then you don't need a check valve at all. If you set up the spillway function in your automation, you also do not need a check valve.

Show us several pics of your equipment pad..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

You need to winterize your pool or blow out lines?

 

[Tfastle]

The pool has automation and when in pool mode the valves(standard Pentair 3 port diverter valves) for intake and return to and from the pool and spa are completely closed to the spa lines. Unless the spa is "on" the valves are in "pool mode" position. And I agree, if those are closed I should have no siphon. I have read that those valves are not positive seal valves and you can get some seepage but I am not sure if that is accurate or enough seepage to cause my problem. It's not a massive amount of water, maybe 1/2" a day (the spa has a cover so evaporation is not really a factor - it's a round 8' diameter spa).

We are in Albuquerque NM, so yes, it does freeze but not like the northern part of the country. The automation (Pentair Easy Touch 8) has freeze protection. In the winter I close the pool, drop the waterline below the tiles, drain the water feature pump and water feature lines (waterfalls and deck jets) and blow them out. In the winter I leave the valves positioned in spa mode with the freeze protection feature on. ajw22, do you ask because you think I might be losing water into the ground via a cracked pipe?

So, in your opinion(s) should my Pentair diverters do the job and I should not need the check valves (which is what I assumed from when the pool was built)? Right now I am clearing things out of the way and digging out some pipes. Then I will get some pictures. I have also decided to adjust the setting on the supply and return valves to make sure they are dead on center (or as dead on as I can get them). How sensitive are those valve settings? Might them being off slightly be my problem? While they were close they may have be off a bit. I would much rather not put in the check valves because there is little to no room and plumbing them is going to be very difficult (for me anyway).

Thanks for the input.

 

[ajw22]

Putting a check valve in the drain line will prevent you from blowing out the drain unless you remove the CV first.

Yes, diverter valves have to be dead center for the paddle to fully seal. If it is slightly off water can leak around the diverter paddle.

You can use a bit of a dye, like Mrs. Stewart's bluing (Wal Mart, most grocery stores), and allow a bit of the blue to be put in front of the spa return and drain. It will look like blue smoke and be drawn in to the area if the leak is there. You can put the rest of the bottle in the water for a sparkling-blue, temporary, effect. Won't harm anything.

 

[Jimrahbe]

T,

The key here is....

Does your spa spillover all the time, when you are in the pool mode, or does it only spillover when the automation tells it to spillover???

If your spa spills over all the time, you are in the pool mode, it means you have a Return valve by-pass (Called a make up line) that sends water to the spa, even in the pool mode.

This is why we need to see the pics..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Tfastle]

It does not have a makeup line. The spillway only flows when on spillway mode (aka spa fill).

I adjusted the actuators so they are as close to dead center as I can get them. They weren't far off so I don't have high hopes but I'll fill the spa to the bottom of the spillway now and see what I have in the morning. If it's down I may try the Mrs. Stewarts Bluing trick (good idea).

I don't winterize the hot tub or blow out the drain line because it has freeze protection. The winter's the best time to use it. )

Thanks for the input. I'll try to get some pictures soon.