Cheaper chloration with no CYA. Is it possible?

[segalion]

I have been reading a lot of TFP proposals about clorination and CYA, table levels, other EU forums, etc, but I remain with allways same questions:

You need CYA to get FC inside pool for more time, but efectiveness of sanitization low a lot (FC without CYA kill algae in 2 mins, with high CYA level takes 30-40 mins...)

So then, the problem seems to be the sun (quickly destroying FC).

But why dont kill the algae at nights (all nights), with hight FC and great recirculation filter pump cycles, with no CYA, but no UV sun effect?
The algae goes to reproduce at day (sun) and kill at night, but if I kill "almost" all algae, the level of reproduction maybe low (the grow exponentially)

Its like to make nighty micro SLAMs all nights, but I have dudes about speed of algae reproduction at sunny and hotter days...

Please, maybe some experts can appport more ideas about this.

Thanks in advance.

(sorry about my bad english)

 

[mknauss]

Algae will take hold during the day with no chlorine in the water. Your water will not be pleasant to swim in with no CYA and any chlorine at all in the water.

Follow the FC/CYA Levels

 

[crusemm]

Also, it's cheaper to add a little LC every day to maintain the proper FC / CYA balance and KNOW that there is no algae in the pool than it is to add a lot of LC at night and GUESS that you got "most" of algae.

 

[Katodude]

It’s not just algae you want to protect against. You want chlorine in your water at all time to deal with other contaminations. Let’s say a bird flys over or lands in the pool and poops. You will want chlorine in the water at that time to deal with it. Thats just an example but there are other types of contaminations that can come in during the day, and even while you are swimming.

 

[segalion]

Thanks for your answers.

I didn't want to argue but to see if there are new alternative ways to keep our swimming pools disinfected, without having to use isocyanuric acid. Today we have lot of cheaper sensors that, for example, can measure the power sun rays, the presence of bathers, even weather prediction... that can help to add more intelligence to the way we sanitize our pools.

My question is because in my experiences I have had many oversights in which the water has been without disinfectant for more than a day (even two or more), and I have seen that the water has resisted perfectly. That is why I have doubts about "at what speed the chlorine degrades with the sun", and "at what speed the algae reproduce" (sure depends on highly on temperature), and if it is really so necessary that the level of FC is "adequate" and "at all times". I have seen i.e that independently of very good level of FC, I can have algae in slots in grooves between tiles if I dont manually clean bottom and walls in 20 days... The chemistry is perfect but the hydrodynamics is not, and the FC does not reach these cracks.

If, for example, it is not possible to endure 12 hours without disinfection, a mini-cycle could also be possible during the day, to inject chlorine at maximum filtering speed (without having CYA, the FC would be very effective immediately and by boosting the water at maximum speed it would spread quite quickly by the pool).

To be more exact, I will change the title of the theme for something like "Cheaper chloration with no CYA. Is it possible?"

 

[Pool_Medic]

Chlorine or Bromine need to be kept at adequate levels at all times, if not, the pool isn’t safe.

 

[frogabog]

So, you're saying you'd like to grow algae during the day, and swim in it without chlorine (as one assumes, you do day swimming), and then blast it with chlorine at night, say 3-4ppm?

How is that better than adding 2-4ppm every day with CYA to reach target?

So basically you'll be adding the same amount or more of chlorine, but battling an algae battle every night, which will turn your water cloudy, and then eventually green during the day because it never gets killed and filtered out, so then you'll need more chlorine at night to kill algae, which will make the water cloudy again, as you go along every day creating and building your new algae army.

Your pool, your choice. By all means, try it and see what happens. But think, if you have tiles with algae, might not some water be splashed against the tiles introducing algae to the water to help your algae army grow big and stronger than you can control with nightly excesses of chlorine?

Not to mention, it's not safe to swim without chlorine. So, you wish to choose to swim (and choose that your family also swim) in unsafe water as well?

There actually is science behind TFP methods. If there was a better way, wouldn't that be what TFP does and teaches, no? TFP has no agenda. If there were a better way, you'd know. Actually, TFP has evolved over the years. I won't go into how, as that's irrelevant, but it has changed some recommendations when a change has been found to work best.

 

[Leebo]

Please also don't forget that killing algae is only part of the job of chlorine. The other part isn't nearly as visible but arguably more important. Chlorine also helps protect the users from person to person diseases. There are many icky germs that can be spread in pool water but chlorine kills off many of them. While your thinking of killing algae at night may (or may not) work it won't protect users against disease during the day while they're swimming. Keeping chlorine in the pool with help from CYA will help kill off any of these icky's.

 

[segalion]

Thanks again.

So for all the answers here, it is not possible safely sanitize with chlorine without CYA.

For the TFP tables, seems that its needed about 10 ppm of CYA for 1 ppm of FC to be protected from sun: too match less dont protect, too match more make FC inactive.

There are only one question more about FC ppm levels: for what I read from spanish forums, FC>5ppm is considered dangerous for bathers. TFP tables recomends values even 7-9. Is this correct?

Thanks again

 

[PoolGate]

Thanks again.

So for all the answers here, it is not possible safely sanitize with chlorine without CYA.

For the TFP tables, seems that its needed about 10 ppm of CYA for 1 ppm of FC to be protected from sun: too match less dont protect, too match more make FC inactive.

There are only one question more about FC ppm levels: for what I read from spanish forums, FC>5ppm is considered dangerous for bathers. TFP tables recomends values even 7-9. Is this correct?

Thanks again

I suggest a closer read of pool school. You can safely sanitize without CYA I don't think anyone said that. The general guideline I follow is I keep free chlorine at 10% of my CYA level.

Some advice for maximum chlorine levels do not take into account CYA buffering.

 

[Pool_Medic]

Yes, you can sanitize without cya, stenner pumps or chlorine gas can be used, but not without orp sensors and rigorous testing. I should add, it’s going to be brutally expensive and be prepared for blooms.

 

[cfherrman]

9 FC at 90 ppm cya is safer than 1 FC at 0 cya

You really just need to try it, doing tfp water makes the water not seem like a pool water at all, your like swimming in fresh spring, not a pool.

If you run 0 cya you would have to produce around .5/1 FC per hour, and then shut it off at night so you don't go over 3 FC.

The half-life of FC with no cya in the sun is around 30 minutes.

Do not forget of pathogens, that is the real reason of clorine, not algae!