Chasing The Numbers

Ssouthar

Bronze Supporter
Dec 27, 2019
23
Elk Grove, Ca
Hi all! First let me say how excited I am to find such a robust and friendly community. 5 months ago we inherited a 20K in-ground that was in good shape but it was struggling from lack of maintenance while the old owners were packing and moving out and we were moving in. I hired a very knowledgable "old timer - partly retired" to guide me in getting it in shape. I had him replace the auto chlorinator that used pucks and he suggested replacing with a Renaissance UV/Ozone system and dispite the negative feelings about Ozone in this group, I really do love it. That same week, the pump gave up the ghost so I had him also replace the single speed with a new Hayward variable speed which I also love. We also installed solar for electricity and that was one of the arguements my guy gave was that you really need to run the pump most of the day with a system like that and because we had the solar, it was a good fit. I agree! We run the pump 16 hours a day and still, our electric bill is under $30 a month. The next week, the automatic pool cleaner died so I had to order a new one and I got a Hayward "The Pool Cleaner", the one with four wheels. So... in the first few weeks, we shelled out about $3800 to get the pool in shape. Ugg! I began reading and reading and learning everything I could. I eventually got everything lined up, battled some algae, learned not to use algaecide - can you say suds? Ugg! For the first 4 months I used pucks in a float and was having good success in keeping the chemistry correct but only using a basic kit. Then I found this site and decided I needed a better kit so I got the K2006c and began a whole new journey of learning. <grin> OMG I was so lost when I sat down the first day with that kit. Now I feel very comfortable with all of the tests but one thing I found was I had a very high CYA probably due to using the pucks so I switched to liquid chlorine but Marty pointed out that if I was buying Chlorine from Costco, that it was probably the type that has Colormax so back to the drawing board. I need to read more about sources for the correct chlorine. I don't own a bank so I won't be buying from Leslie's, as good as they are.

With that background, I have a couple questions but first, here are my numbers.

==========================================
Steve’s Pool
------------------------------------------
Build Type: Plaster
Volume: 20000 gallons
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Latest Test Result Summary:
FC: 3.2 (5 hours ago)
CC: 0.4 (5 hours ago)
pH: 7.7 (5 hours ago)
TA: 110 (5 hours ago)
CH: 310 (5 hours ago)
CYA: 100 (5 hours ago)
TEMPERATURE: 44° (2 days ago)
CSI: -0.24 (5 hours ago)
==========================================
The CYA was closer to 200 (just a guess) but now around 100 probably because of recent rains and having to drain off some of that water.
Question 1.
I've put in about 3 gallons of liquid bleach in the past couple of days and after letting the pump run on high for a few hours, test it and I see a higher level - over 3ppm. The next morning back down to .5ppm. Hmm... I'm wondering if that means I have stuff in the water that is reacting with the chlorine. I cleaned the filter first thing but that was 4 months ago and maybe it needs to be cleaned again? The pressure needle has not gone up and I was told to not mess with the filter until the needle reached the red mark. Or... clean it every 6 months regardless.
Question 2
Because I have a UV system, air bubbles are normal to see coming out of the returns but in my research about bubbles, it became clear that there are other reasons for air bubbles so I figured I should check for other sources. I decided to check the clear cover of the pump basket and whoa, no rubber gasket. Huh? Should that not have a gasket?? I'm going to call Hayward in the morning and ask but I believe it must have to have one, right?
Sorry for the long post!!!
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
43,385
Tallahassee, FL
Man that pool has been a money pit for you so far BUT it will get better as you shake out the old and get everything settled.

CYA-You need to dilute the pool water as seen here:
"Use half tap water half pool water and fill to the bottom of the label of red tipped bottle. Then fill to the top of the label with the reagent. Shake to mix wait 30 seconds. Shake once more. Pour into the view tube. When black dot disappears take your reading then double it.
If your pool water is cold let warm to room temp. Cold water can sometimes affect the test"

I know you don't want to go to a pool $tore but if the only thing you get from them is liquid chlorine you will be come out ahead unless you have to make a long, special trip to get it.

Now PLEASE share a picture or 5 of this pretty pool! That is a like candy to us!

Kim:kim:
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
13,234
Northern NJ
I've put in about 3 gallons of liquid bleach in the past couple of days and after letting the pump run on high for a few hours, test it and I see a higher level - over 3ppm. The next morning back down to .5ppm. Hmm... I'm wondering if that means I have stuff in the water that is reacting with the chlorine.
After you get your CYA down between 30-50 you should do a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. If you don;t pass then you hould follow the SLAM Process

I cleaned the filter first thing but that was 4 months ago and maybe it needs to be cleaned again? The pressure needle has not gone up and I was told to not mess with the filter until the needle reached the red mark. Or... clean it every 6 months regardless.
I don;t knwo what the red mark is at. You should clean your filter when the pressure rises 25% from the clean filter pressure regardless of time. If your filter pressure rises 25% in a few eeks then youc lean it at that time. If it stays below 25% for a year then just clean it once a year.

Because I have a UV system, air bubbles are normal to see coming out of the returns but in my research about bubbles, it became clear that there are other reasons for air bubbles so I figured I should check for other sources. I decided to check the clear cover of the pump basket and whoa, no rubber gasket. Huh? Should that not have a gasket?? I'm going to call Hayward in the morning and ask but I believe it must have to have one, right?
Sorry for the long post!!!
There is no reason for a UV system in an outdoor pool You get plenty of free UV from the sun. I would turn off your UV/Ozone system and see what happens to your bubble situation. Once you get the bubbles eliminated you can turn it on if you want.
 

Ssouthar

Bronze Supporter
Dec 27, 2019
23
Elk Grove, Ca
After you get your CYA down between 30-50 you should do a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. If you don;t pass then you hould follow the SLAM Process



I don;t knwo what the red mark is at. You should clean your filter when the pressure rises 25% from the clean filter pressure regardless of time. If your filter pressure rises 25% in a few eeks then youc lean it at that time. If it stays below 25% for a year then just clean it once a year.



There is no reason for a UV system in an outdoor pool You get plenty of free UV from the sun. I would turn off your UV/Ozone system and see what happens to your bubble situation. Once you get the bubbles eliminated you can turn it on if you want.
The weird thing is that when I cleaned the filter (first and only time) the pressure on the gauge was the same afterwards as it was when I finished cleaning. I was dubious about the accuracy of that but decided to wait and watch. It's not budged. Been sitting at 15psi for the past 4 months.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
43,385
Tallahassee, FL
Steve does the gauge drop to 0 when you turn the pump off? How fast does it "jump up" when you turn the pump on? We need to make sure that gauge is working properly. Does it change pressure when you change the pump speed?
 

jseyfert3

Bronze Supporter
Oct 20, 2017
596
South-Central WI
I've put in about 3 gallons of liquid bleach in the past couple of days and after letting the pump run on high for a few hours, test it and I see a higher level - over 3ppm. The next morning back down to .5ppm. Hmm... I'm wondering if that means I have stuff in the water that is reacting with the chlorine.
There sure is, your UV/Ozone system. Both UV and Ozone will destroy FC (just one of the many reasons they are seldom recommended here). You must shut off both to get an accurate overnight FC loss reading.
 

Ssouthar

Bronze Supporter
Dec 27, 2019
23
Elk Grove, Ca
Thanks jseyfert3. I retested this morning without having turned off the UV system and I had 3.4 FC this morning which is about as high as I need it with this system running 16 hours a day. With switching to liquid bleach, it's going to take a while for me to find a rhythm. I'll keep using the calculations on how much to add and see how it goes.
 

Ssouthar

Bronze Supporter
Dec 27, 2019
23
Elk Grove, Ca
Steve does the gauge drop to 0 when you turn the pump off? How fast does it "jump up" when you turn the pump on? We need to make sure that gauge is working properly. Does it change pressure when you change the pump speed?
Thanks Kim! Yep, it changes. Here is a picture showing different stages of operation.
PoolFilterGauge.jpg
 

Ssouthar

Bronze Supporter
Dec 27, 2019
23
Elk Grove, Ca
Man that pool has been a money pit for you so far BUT it will get better as you shake out the old and get everything settled.

CYA-You need to dilute the pool water as seen here:
"Use half tap water half pool water and fill to the bottom of the label of red tipped bottle. Then fill to the top of the label with the reagent. Shake to mix wait 30 seconds. Shake once more. Pour into the view tube. When black dot disappears take your reading then double it.
If your pool water is cold let warm to room temp. Cold water can sometimes affect the test"

I know you don't want to go to a pool $tore but if the only thing you get from them is liquid chlorine you will be come out ahead unless you have to make a long, special trip to get it.

Now PLEASE share a picture or 5 of this pretty pool! That is a like candy to us!

Kim:kim:
Thanks for the advise Kim! I'm not sure if I'm understanding the part about the red tipped bottle. I have the K20006c kit and it has the small plastic bottle with a squeeze cap. It has the 7 and 14 ml markings. I'm sure I could come up with a method to dilute the sample by half if that's what you are talking about in order to get a more accurate reading and your suggestion on water temp is a good one so I will do that and see. Pictures? Haha! Well, how about i just give you a link to the pictures of the house as it was when we went to see it the first time in July. This is why we fell in love with it on the spot. We saw the pics online and then OMG, saw the house in person. We had been looking at larger properties with 5 or more acres but all the houses needed more work than we wanted to do. This one hit the sweet spot even though it was only a half acre. We train our dogs for obedience competition so we wanted a place with enough room to do that in our own back yard. This one will be awesome once I get back there and create a training yard where all the trees are (were).
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
43,385
Tallahassee, FL
CYA-get 1/4 cup pool water and 1/4 cup of tap water and mix it up. Then use that to do the test. (The red tip comes from the TF-100 test kit-sorry about that). Once you get a readying on the CYA from this mixture double it and that is your CYA.

That house and yard!!! WOWZER!! I can see why you fell in LOVE with that whole thing! Man what fun you will have making it your own!

You do dog obedience?? What kind of dogs? Do you have any pictures of them???????? I love dogs and cats and goats and horses....well all critters! Even the 2 legged kind LOL

Kim:kim:
 

Ssouthar

Bronze Supporter
Dec 27, 2019
23
Elk Grove, Ca
That FC level is far too low for your CYA.
See FC/CYA Chart
Thanks Marty! I'll take your advice and get the chlorine uptil the CYA comes down. I know you said I shouldn't the chlorox from Costco but I'm going to go ahead and use them up and never use them again.
CYA-get 1/4 cup pool water and 1/4 cup of tap water and mix it up. Then use that to do the test. (The red tip comes from the TF-100 test kit-sorry about that). Once you get a readying on the CYA from this mixture double it and that is your CYA.

That house and yard!!! WOWZER!! I can see why you fell in LOVE with that whole thing! Man what fun you will have making it your own!

You do dog obedience?? What kind of dogs? Do you have any pictures of them???????? I love dogs and cats and goats and horses....well all critters! Even the 2 legged kind LOL

Kim:kim:
Perfect! I'll give that a try with the CYA. Yeah the only downside to this place is lack of access to the back yard with big equipment. Only one gate and it's on the opposite side of the property that I want to do the work on. Will have to find the really small micro bobcats to rent. Drainage is a real problem too but I can address that once I start ripping stuff up. We've trained and bred Golden Retrievers for over 25 years. We no longer breed but my wife is still very active in the sport and I do dog show photography so it keeps us both busy. If you take a look at my YouTube channel, you'll see some videos of Terry working her dogs at shows and tons of puppy videos along with lots of hiking videos. If you like nature, you'll love those videos because I've had the good fortune to hike in some pretty amazing places up in Alberta with my friend Mike. There is also a slideshow video of my photography in there somewhere. Goats? OMG I've wanted goats forever but it's been a hard sell with my wife. <grin>