Cartridge filter in series with DE filter, and balance water before or after slam method?

Jeffsp

0
Jun 2, 2015
44
Matawan NJ
Pool Size
10500
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Hello all, made a post last year looking for help, managed to get my pool squared away last year, but I think it was luck. Same problems I had are reoccurring again this year so here I am. This may be a long post so I’m gonna put the main 2 questions here close to the top. And I’ll provide the background to it after.

Here’s the main questions, do you think the idea of running a cartridge filter inline with a DE filter will work well? I’m currently Having issues with the de filter clogging very quickly due to algae growth, and have changed out de media several times.(in the process of correcting the algae growth as well, see below in the pool background)
My thoughts are the cartridge filter can catch most of the big stuff before heading to the DE filter, where the DE will finish polishing the water and slow the DE from clogging so quickly. I already have all the items to put into use, so it wouldn’t cost me anything to do. This may just be a temporary setup as well. Once water is clean and adjusted properly, the need for 2 filters will most likely be unnecessary.
It’s a 1HP pump, providing 75 GPM, currently coupled to a Hayward EC-40, but was originally mated to a 150sqft cartridge filter.
The other question was in regards to the slam method. Should I be adding CYA and adjusting my ph and alkalinity prior to chlorine? What order should I be doing it in? Should I be adding CYA first , then adjust alkalinity and then ph? Should I be waiting a certain amount of time between additions of certain chemicals? And how often should I be rechecking chlorine levels? During and after the slam method? I’m going to retest once the Taylor kit is here, but current dip strips say all levels are low, and I have a feeling it’s probably right.

Here’s the background of the pool. Moved into the house just about 2 years ago now; had a 21ft above ground installed last year. Started with a 150sqft dohenys cartridge filter with 1HP pump. Got frustrated by having to swap and clean filters, so moved to a DE filter this year. My water balancing regimen was nearly non existent. I added cya periodically and just kept adding chlorine mostly blind, guided only by weekly dip strip tests. This method worked well for the 15ft pool that I used to have at the old house, with no tree growth over it. Now I’m dealing with almost twice the water and a large tulip tree near the pool that likes to rain down sap and leaves into the pool, and it’s become obvious that this method isn’t working. To correct this I have a Taylor K2006 test kit coming so I can accurately slam the pool, and the appropriate products to adjust ph, cya, and alkalinity. I know lack of chlorine and inaccurate and lack of water testing is ultimately what led me here, but as stated above, I’m burning through DE and finding that I have to regenerate the filter every 20 minutes or so, which is impractical when I’m at work throughout the week and unable to check it until I’m home after work.
 
Two filters in parallel configuration would be better. By splitting the water flow it slows down and allows the filters to trap more debris. Your EC-40 is a very small filter, 20sq. ft. of filtration area. That will clog very fast. If you are going to go the 2-filter route, get another cartridge filter to match what you have and plumb in parallel.
 
Please update your signature with your current pool/equipment/ ...
Get a proper testing kit. TF-100 Test Kit ™
Start testing the water regularly as it's the only way to keep a pool clean. Not testing and balancing regularly is why the DE is clogging and adding filters isn't going to help that. You'll just be cleaning the DE or sand or replacing cartridges excessively until you clean up and maintain the water.
Read up on SLAM, you should try to get the pH correct before starting and only raise the CYA to the intended level once the SLAM is completed as that way you'll need less chlorine to get the job done.
How to SLAM: Algae Archives
 
Two filters in parallel configuration would be better. By splitting the water flow it slows down and allows the filters to trap more debris. Your EC-40 is a very small filter, 20sq. ft. of filtration area. That will clog very fast. If you are going to go the 2-filter route, get another cartridge filter to match what you have and plumb in parallel.
Thank you for the tip. Might be a bit before I could justify an additional cartridge unit though. I do have everything already to setup the cartridge in series with the DE. You don’t think the cartridge would help pull some contaminants before going thru the DE filter?
Thanks
 
Please update your signature with your current pool/equipment/ ...
Get a proper testing kit. TF-100 Test Kit ™
Start testing the water regularly as it's the only way to keep a pool clean. Not testing and balancing regularly is why the DE is clogging and adding filters isn't going to help that. You'll just be cleaning the DE or sand or replacing cartridges excessively until you clean up and maintain the water.
Read up on SLAM, you should try to get the pH correct before starting and only raise the CYA to the intended level once the SLAM is completed as that way you'll need less chlorine to get the job done.
How to SLAM: Algae Archives
Thanks, I currently have a k2006 kit coming for ph, alkalinity, ph, cya, and dpd-fas test. I was planning to perform the slam method. But you would chlorinate before adjusting cya? I thought without any cya, the chlorine will burn off quickly before thoroughly sanatizing the pool.
I agree that the algae is the cause of the clogging DE filter, but at how fast it clogs, and I can’t keep up with it fast enough to get the filter to properly circulate chemicals and clean the water, hence my reasoning for adding the cartridge as a prefilter to the DE filter.
Thanks
 
Do you already have a spare filter ? They are mighty spendy when it's only to get by for a week until you get the test kit.

Also, algae clogs all 3 filters. Maybe the cartridges take 40 mins to clog instead of 20, but it isn't going to go how you hope.
 
You don't have a filtering issue, you have a chemistry issue.

Follow the SLAM Process
Drop pH to 7.2
Dose to get the CYA to 30
Add FC to 12 several times daily

A cartridge or DE filter will clog pretty quick when removing dead algae.
At the beginning of a SLAM Process, you are going to be cleaning or backwashing the DE filter maybe several times daily.
Does your DE filter have a multiport valve?
 
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Do you already have a spare filter ? They are mighty spendy when it's only to get by for a week until you get the test kit.

Also, algae clogs all 3 filters. Maybe the cartridges take 40 mins to clog instead of 20, but it isn't going to go how you hope.
Yes, I do already have the cartridge. I already have everything to make the setup. I do agree that there’s the chance that this setup may not go as well I have hope for, and would not spend the money to try and do it. My thoughts were, last year while trying to clean up dirty water, the cartridge would clog up, but never to the point where flow stop all together. The DE filter clogs up to the point of no flow. Also I’m finding that I am burning thru DE. At least with the cartridges, I can pull, wash and replace, thus saving some DE. At least that is/was my hope.
Thanks
 
You don't have a filtering issue, you have a chemistry issue.

Follow the SLAM Process
Drop pH to 7.2
Dose to get the CYA to 30
Add FC to 12 several times daily

A cartridge or DE filter will clog pretty quick when removing dead algae.
At the beginning of a SLAM Process, you are going to be cleaning or backwashing the DE filter maybe several times daily.
Does your DE filter have a multiport valve?

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I’ve never understood the premise of this question about having two filters? Why would anyone be led to believe that having two filters is better than one? It’s not and it’s twice as much work.

Pools are not as complex as people are led to believe. You need a pump, proper plumbing, a filter (note the use the words “A filter”) and a method of chlorination. That’s it. If you take proper care of your pool water and keep it balanced and sanitary, then it doesn't matter one iota which filter type you have. Sand, cartridge or DE - as long as it is properly sized for the pump and the plumbing, any filter will work.
 
You don't have a filtering issue, you have a chemistry issue.

Follow the SLAM Process
Drop pH to 7.2
Dose to get the CYA to 30
Add FC to 12 several times daily

A cartridge or DE filter will clog pretty quick when removing dead algae.
At the beginning of a SLAM Process, you are going to be cleaning or backwashing the DE filter maybe several times daily.
Does your DE filter have a multiport valve?
I agree with that. Absolutely. But keeping the filter flowing is what’s really slowing me down.
Unfortunately, no. There’s is no multi port valve so I cant just recirculate. I had thought about temporarily rerouting from pump right back to pool for a day or 2 while slamming the pool and then adding the filter back, but wasn’t sure how effective that would be. The filter clogs within 20 minutes or so. Unfortunately I have to work, so thru the week I can only give the filter attention in the morning and at night. My plans are to dedicate this coming weekend to maintaining the filter all weekend to keep flow up and maintaining chlorine levels and am hoping for the best.
As for adjusting ph and cya prior to chlorine, can I make the water additions for ph and cya at the same time? I’ll have to raise both ph and cya.
Thanks
 
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I’ve never understood the premise of this question about having two filters? Why would anyone be led to believe that having two filters is better than one? It’s not and it’s twice as much work.

Pools are not as complex as people are led to believe. You need a pump, proper plumbing, a filter (note the use the words “A filter”) and a method of chlorination. That’s it. If you take proper care of your pool water and keep it balanced and sanitary, then it doesn't matter one iota which filter type you have. Sand, cartridge or DE - as long as it is properly sized for the pump and the plumbing, any filter will work.
Yes, that seems to be the consensus here on the thread, that an additional filter will be unnecessary or maybe even more problems rather then help. As I’ve stated a few times though, while I had hopes 2 filters might clean better, the idea was that maybe I’d have a better chance of keeping the water flowing as I won’t have time to dedicate to the filter throughout the week due to work. If I can get the filter to keep flowing longer while I’m away at work, the better the chance I’ll have getting the pool cleaned up sooner.
I will be starting the slam method as soon as I have the test kit.
 
You are trying too hard. Use PoolMath and add 5ppm FC a day until the kit arrives.

Do it either in the morning or evening and mix for 15 mins after. Then shut the pool off. Your first day or two in SLAM will catch up on anything you missed between now and then.
 
You are trying too hard. Use PoolMath and add 5ppm FC a day until the kit arrives.

Do it either in the morning or evening and mix for 15 mins after. Then shut the pool off. Your first day or two in SLAM will catch up on anything you missed between now and then.
Thank you. So I guess really I’m just hung up on the filter flow. I was under the impression the filter flowing was pretty important, for of course filtering, but also for helping to mix the chlorine. I know the point of slamming the pool is to kill the algae, and sanatizer the water, just didn’t think it did it nearly as efficiently when he water isn’t being circulated.
Thanks
 
15 mins is enough to mix it with circulation. Do it twice a day, 2.5 ppm / 2.5 ppm if you'd like. Or once with 5ppm. You only need to limp along a few days and then hit it hard. Hopefully the kit comes for the weekend when most people have more time to devote the first 2 days.
 
The way your system is set up presently do you have a way to bypass the filter entirely ? If you do at least at first before doing your slam you can bypass the filter and just keep the pump running mixing chemicals and keeping the FC at the high slam range.
I'd be very worried of what the cya level is simply because you said you've been adding it periodically but you don't mention that you've been testing it or having it tested. I'll catch some flac for this because it's one of the most unreliable tests pool store does but I would take a sample into a pool store or two if you're in a bigger city that has them so you could compare them and find out roughly where your cya is. If it's too high you're going to need to be dumping water before you can start a slam and it may be why you have such an algae problem. With a high cya level the chlorine just can't kill the algie you need to add so much of it.
 
Thank you for the tip. Might be a bit before I could justify an additional cartridge unit though. I do have everything already to setup the cartridge in series with the DE. You don’t think the cartridge would help pull some contaminants before going thru the DE filter?
Thanks
Filter manufacturers recommended against a series install when multiple filters were installed on a system. You would see 5 or 6 150sq. ft. cartridge filters (once saw 10) on commercial pools before the advent of large-capacity cartridge filters (300 sq. ft. or more). They were always installed in a parallel configuration. You add too much restriction to the flow with a series install.

You would be better off with just the 150 you have and leave out that tiny DE filter. Or, hook them up in parallel.
But, then there is my un-official motto: Your pool. Your money. Your choice. Your mileage may vary.
 
Thank you all for the tips and help so far.
Test kit is scheduled to be here today.
Last night for the 3rd time, I disassembled, and cleaned all old DE from the filter and reloaded with 4lbs DE. Currently doing a bit better about not clogging up so fast. I added a gallon of 7.5% sodium hypochlorite bleach to the pool, which according to pool math, should be about 7ppm of chlorine, and left filter running for a few hours.
Tested about an hour later after the chlorine addition with the strips I have.
I know strips can be inaccurate, so do what you want with these readings, and I will be testing again tonight with the Taylor kit should it make its way to me today.
Hardness: 250
CC: 1
FC: 0
pH: 6.8
TA: 40
CYA: 0
The thing is, I added 2 pounds of stabilizer a couple of weeks ago, and have had very little rain since then. I guess that’s the inaccuracy of strips? I know 2 pounds wouldnt be enough to get me up to proper levels in a 10000 gallon pool, but I wanted to start with less and add, rather then risk putting too much in, and then once the water clouded up, I stopped all water additions except chlorine until I could get a more accurate reading of cya.
 
The high chlorine levels will bleach out the strips and screw up the chemicals on the other patches. Just ignore the strips. They are not accurate at all.
 
Just updating this thread a bit more, and looking for a little more advice. Test kit hasn’t showed up yet, ugh.
In the mean time, I’ve been adding about a half gallon of 10% sodium hypochlorite liquid chlorine every night once the sun is just about down. And let the filter run most of the night. That should put it at about 5ppm a day.
The water is green, but looks slightly more clear as I can make out the bottom now, but the algae looks thicker stuck to the ladder and bottom, and is starting to float on top in small spots.
I have been testing with the strips ( I know, I know, I know the strips are inaccurate ), but I’m just trying to at least get a base reading as best as I can until I can properly test the water.
First night TC was 1 with FC 0. Last night after the chlorine addition, TC was 5, FC still 0. I know I cannot rely on strips, so hopefully the Taylor kit gets here soon, but IF the strips are reading even remotely close to accurate, does this make sense? Does it sound like I’m going in the right direction?
If my CYA levels aren’t too high, my understanding is that FC might be 0 since there is so much algae in the pool.
Thanks again
 

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