Thanks for the info, i am going to try this and hope for the best, fyi, I replaced a 15 yr old whisperflo single speed that used a relay and not a rs-485 connection
Can’t connect IAqualink 3.0 to new Intelliflo3 vsf
- Thread starter Gschaef
- Start date
MSchutzer
Silver Supporter
One other thought. When the light on the pump turns magenta we don't know if its understanding the RS485 messages or just detecting activity on the bus? There is always activity on the bus whether or not messages are being sent to the pump.
An interesting experiment would be to reverse the two RS485 wires and see if the light on the pump still goes to magenta? I guess what I am saying is that just because the light is magenta it may not necessarily mean the polarity of the RS485 wires are correct.
As @HermanTX suggested hook up the two wires, reboot the Aqualink and set it up for intelliflo VS pump. If after doing all that with it hooked up they way you think the RS485 wires should be and it still doesn't work, try reversing the two RS485 wires. You can't hurt anything with the wires reversed, the data sense will just be reversed and won't be understood.
An interesting experiment would be to reverse the two RS485 wires and see if the light on the pump still goes to magenta? I guess what I am saying is that just because the light is magenta it may not necessarily mean the polarity of the RS485 wires are correct.
As @HermanTX suggested hook up the two wires, reboot the Aqualink and set it up for intelliflo VS pump. If after doing all that with it hooked up they way you think the RS485 wires should be and it still doesn't work, try reversing the two RS485 wires. You can't hurt anything with the wires reversed, the data sense will just be reversed and won't be understood.
You are correct in this statement as I had a WhisperFlo single speed pump and it worked off the Filter/Pump relay. It just was an on/off switch. With a VS pump, you want to access the programing features and utilize the 8 available speeds offered by the VS pump. Therefore the RS485 cable is that interface. So go from the Pump RS485 board on the pump to the Jandy RED connector on the Jandy Automation PCB using the RS485 cable - you only need 2 of the 4 wires in it. The Jandy Automation is programed to read Pentair code, so that "should" work. We know it works on the previous generation of Pentair IntelliFlo pumps, now we are applying that same logic to the new IntelliFlo3 pump. Be sure your Jandy Automation is POWERED OFF by the circuit breaker before making connections. Pump CB should be OFF as well.
Alright guys! Went home at lunch, removed the intellicom2, attached the yellow and green wires to the rs-485 connector on the jandy board, made sure the pump selection was vs, turned the power on and boom! She fired up, just have to mess around with the rpm settings to get it dialed in. I even switched it back to vf from vs to see if it would work but it doesn’t communicate on vf for whatever reason
Thanks to all for the input, can’t thank you enough
G
did you attach the 2 wires per my picture in post #20 or did you reverse them? Just want to know for future questions.
It is the Jandy firmware - it likes VS but not VF. I put a flowmeter in my pipework to get an estimate of gpm for a given RPM
MSchutzer
Silver Supporter
Does the pump info show up on the Aqualink status page (on the web interface) when it’s running? You should see the current RPM and power consumption on the status page as it should read that info from the pump.
The key to using a VSP pump is to only run it faster when you are doing specific things, running the cleaner, using the spa, using the heater, etc. Otherwise run it longer and slower, that is where you get your energy savings.
The key is understanding the pump affinity laws, the flow rate scales with the motor speed, but the power consumption scales by the power of 3.
If you reduce the speed by 20% the flow will be down by 20% or 80% of the original flow. But .8^3 = .5 so the power consumption will be 1/2. If you reduce the speed by 1/2 you get half the flow, but the pump uses 1/8 the power. Reduce the speed to 1/4 and you use 1/64th the power. This falls apart at very slow speeds because the pump electronics consume some minimum power so that can become a larger percentage of the total consumption.
But the key to savings is to run the pump longer at slower speeds, it’s also much quieter that way.
Several folks run their pumps 24/7 at speeds in the range of 1200 rpm and say it costs about $20 dollars a month to run.
The key to using a VSP pump is to only run it faster when you are doing specific things, running the cleaner, using the spa, using the heater, etc. Otherwise run it longer and slower, that is where you get your energy savings.
The key is understanding the pump affinity laws, the flow rate scales with the motor speed, but the power consumption scales by the power of 3.
If you reduce the speed by 20% the flow will be down by 20% or 80% of the original flow. But .8^3 = .5 so the power consumption will be 1/2. If you reduce the speed by 1/2 you get half the flow, but the pump uses 1/8 the power. Reduce the speed to 1/4 and you use 1/64th the power. This falls apart at very slow speeds because the pump electronics consume some minimum power so that can become a larger percentage of the total consumption.
But the key to savings is to run the pump longer at slower speeds, it’s also much quieter that way.
Several folks run their pumps 24/7 at speeds in the range of 1200 rpm and say it costs about $20 dollars a month to run.
Great info, thanks for that, the IAqualink does show the status of the pump in rpms and estimated power consumption, I can also go to the pentair app and see gpm, speed% and power usage which is convenient.
Part of my reason for choosing this pump is that i keep the pool open year round and there are times here where it’ll run in freeze protect mode for days, if I can slow the speed down to 20% in freeze protect that will save me alot of money
Very happy that it worked out and pleased to know that a Pentair IntelliFlo3 VSF pump can be operated by a Jandy AquaLink automation.
It is also great to know that you can still access the Pentair app to see GPM and other details. I was concerned it may go dormant with the RS485 cable attached to the Jandy Automation. Sorry you had to purchase the Intellicom2 device.
@MSchutzer or @ajw22 - can we update the Jandy Automation Wiki or the Pentair Pump Wiki that we have a confirmation of the new Pentair IntelliFlo3 VSF pump working with the Jandy AquaLink automation.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,173
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I think it is unnecessary. Nowhere do we say the IntelliFlo3 is not compatible. So far all IntelliFlo pumps work the same if they use the 7 pin RS-485 cable. I would rather note the pumps that have quirks and incompatibilities. The IntelliFlo3 looks compatible with no quirks although some speculated otherwise.
This thread got off track because the OP jumped to trying the Intellicomm device instead of working through the correct RS-485 direct wiring.
There is the known difference between Pentair and Jandy RS-485 color codes which is documented in the wiki.
- Dec 13, 2020
- 908
- Pool Size
- 19600
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
Yes that was the major reason I switched, too. To get water flowing everywhere during freezes I need to put valves in 50% positions where the spa drains if the pump is off. First winter I was out at 9pm every night that might freeze setting things by hand and undoing it every morning. Yuk.
Now I set up once in November and let the pump run at 1100 rpm 24x7 (115 W). Just because I'm paranoid it kicks up to 1700 for actual freezing temps just to be sure. Got through 3 consecutive nights at 6F around Christmas. So I guess it works.
First night with freezing temps last night with the freeze protect set at 1700 rpms, in freeze protect mode the pump runs at whatever the normal program speeds are,(spa-3450, pool/cleaner 2900).
I can reprogram the spa to run at 1700 rpms during the winter since we rarely use it but do need the cleaner to run at 2900 at couple hours a day, doesn't make sense that you can set rpms for freeze protect but it overrides it to run at program speeds, what am I missing here?
I can reprogram the spa to run at 1700 rpms during the winter since we rarely use it but do need the cleaner to run at 2900 at couple hours a day, doesn't make sense that you can set rpms for freeze protect but it overrides it to run at program speeds, what am I missing here?
First night with freezing temps last night with the freeze protect set at 1700 rpms, in freeze protect mode the pump runs at whatever the normal program speeds are,(spa-3450, pool/cleaner 2900).
I can reprogram the spa to run at 1700 rpms during the winter since we rarely use it but do need the cleaner to run at 2900 at couple hours a day, doesn't make sense that you can set rpms for freeze protect but it overrides it to run at program speeds, what am I missing here?
MSchutzer
Silver Supporter
A couple of questions, which Freeze protect boxes do you have checked next to the various functions?
Does your spa have a makeup valve that causes the spa to overflow into the pool when you have your pool filter on?
And I don’t understand your pool/cleaner speed? Do you have separate speeds for both the pool and the cleaner and have the freeze protection boxes checked for both speeds?
Another unrelated question, why are your pool / cleaner speeds both set to 2900 rpm, that’s a lot of flow with a 3HP pump, it makes sense for the cleaner speed, but you can save yourself some money running the pool filtering function slower.
If your spa overflows when the pool is filtering they you should only need to have the filter/pump freeze protection box checked and no other boxes checked. That would be the ideal setting.
If the spa doesn’t overflow the you need to check the filter/pump and spa freeze protection boxes, but note that a lot of people have reported that the spa levels may fall as the system cycles the Jandy valves every 30 minutes as the system switches from pool to spa and back.
How are you determining the pump speeds when the freeze protection is active? What you are seeing doesn’t make sense.
Can you show us a picture of freeze protection setup and which boxes are checked as active.
I would try experimenting with things by first only checking the freeze protection box for the filter pump function. Then I would get a cup full of ice water and dump your air temp sensor into the cup to force the freeze protection to activate. I‘m not in an area where my freeze protection ever activates, but I think I read that it’s a 15 minute or 30 minute cycle where it activates for a set time, and then goes back and checks the air temp sensor again to see if it’s still below the activation temperature.
When multiple freeze protection boxes are checked, the system will switch between modes. The pump may shut off as the valves move between modes, depending on how you have the pump disable mode set up. If the pump shuts off as it switches modes it will likely start back up at the priming speed for a certain duration of time. That can cause the pump to appear to be running faster than the freeze protection speed while priming, could this be happening?
Try simplifying things with only one freeze protection box checked, test with ice water, and then check additional boxes as needed.
I can’t show you those screens from my system as I’m currently without power for more than 24 hours now due to our California wind storm yesterday.
I hope this helps.
Does your spa have a makeup valve that causes the spa to overflow into the pool when you have your pool filter on?
And I don’t understand your pool/cleaner speed? Do you have separate speeds for both the pool and the cleaner and have the freeze protection boxes checked for both speeds?
Another unrelated question, why are your pool / cleaner speeds both set to 2900 rpm, that’s a lot of flow with a 3HP pump, it makes sense for the cleaner speed, but you can save yourself some money running the pool filtering function slower.
If your spa overflows when the pool is filtering they you should only need to have the filter/pump freeze protection box checked and no other boxes checked. That would be the ideal setting.
If the spa doesn’t overflow the you need to check the filter/pump and spa freeze protection boxes, but note that a lot of people have reported that the spa levels may fall as the system cycles the Jandy valves every 30 minutes as the system switches from pool to spa and back.
How are you determining the pump speeds when the freeze protection is active? What you are seeing doesn’t make sense.
Can you show us a picture of freeze protection setup and which boxes are checked as active.
I would try experimenting with things by first only checking the freeze protection box for the filter pump function. Then I would get a cup full of ice water and dump your air temp sensor into the cup to force the freeze protection to activate. I‘m not in an area where my freeze protection ever activates, but I think I read that it’s a 15 minute or 30 minute cycle where it activates for a set time, and then goes back and checks the air temp sensor again to see if it’s still below the activation temperature.
When multiple freeze protection boxes are checked, the system will switch between modes. The pump may shut off as the valves move between modes, depending on how you have the pump disable mode set up. If the pump shuts off as it switches modes it will likely start back up at the priming speed for a certain duration of time. That can cause the pump to appear to be running faster than the freeze protection speed while priming, could this be happening?
Try simplifying things with only one freeze protection box checked, test with ice water, and then check additional boxes as needed.
I can’t show you those screens from my system as I’m currently without power for more than 24 hours now due to our California wind storm yesterday.
I hope this helps.
1.I have the spa, pool and cleaner check for freeze protect,
2. The return valve to the spa is set so it doesn’t close all the way in pool mode so it spills over a waterfall into the pool
3.right now if I run the pump at less than 2900 with the cleaner on there isn’t enough pressure to run the cleaner like it’s supposed to, which I don’t care about in freeze protect mode, I do run the pool at a slower speed when the cleaner isn’t on but if I run it much lower the waterfall just runs down the side of the spa (wifey doesn’t like this)
4. My question is if I only check the pool filter as freeze protect, then will the valves for the spa and cleaner still open when it goes into freeze protect? If not it leaves the spa and cleaner pipes unprotected
5. When you go into the vsp speed setup on the app there is button where you can set the speed for freeze protect which i have set at 1700 rpm, what doesn’t make sense is when the system goes into freeze protect mode it ignores that rpm setting and goes to the speed set for the daily schedule.
6. I do have the pump delay disabled so the pump runs while the valves switch back and forth
Attachments
If the pump sees two or more speeds at the same time, it will run the fastest one.
I suspect if the system was off with nothing scheduled, it would run at 1700 when the freeze protect comes on.
Thanks,
Jim R.
I suspect if the system was off with nothing scheduled, it would run at 1700 when the freeze protect comes on.
Thanks,
Jim R.
What speed do you run in normal pool mode? This would be with no cleaner. Based on your comments earlier - your normal pool mode always flows to the pool and to the spa (to have the spillover effect). what speed gives the best spillover to the pool? Can you show a photo of your return plumbing at the equipment pad?
do you have a set schedule for cleaner mode? Or do you manually need to change the valve to operate the cleaner? The best way to have a suctionside cleaner to run is to have only suction from the cleaner line and no other pipes. Maybe show a picture of your pipework on the suction side would help us understand your plumbing.
As Jim indicated - the system will run the higher speed if the systems has 2 functions scheduled for same time.
Here is mine where I have freeze protection at 2000rpm but normally pool is at 1550. However Spa is at 2650 rpm. So in freeze protection the pool will run at 2000rpm and when the spa kicks in it will move up to 2650. When not in freeze protection the pool runs at 1550rpm.
Note - I would enable the pump delay when the valves turn unless you have an issue with losing prime when your pump stops.
I run the pool at 2750 rpms to get the spillover to work properly and I have it scheduled to run from 10am to 4pm, the cleaner runs from 10am till 2pm, the cleaner is a polaris that runs at about 15 psi (runs on pressure not suction), it has a jva so it’s automated.
The freeze protect doesn’t normally come on til late night to early morning when the temps drop and doesn’t usually run during the scheduled time as the temps usually rise by that time to take it out of freeze protect.
Thanks, G
Do you reallly need to run your spillover for 6 hrs. That is not giving you a lot of cost savings (assume you have a VS pump).
Also what is model and type of your Polaris cleaner. The way you had indicated your operation I assumed it was a suction cleaner.
It may be helpful to understand all of your equipment. You can post a photo of your equipment pad as well.
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