Cannot find the light switch

[beachhouse]

Hi all,

I am renting a house with an inground swimming pool.
The landlord inherited the pool from the previous owner of the house.

The pool has a Pentair light, and I can see the junction box next to the light, ~10 inches above the ground. The light has never been on, and I suspect the bulb needs to be replaced.

As silly as it might sounds, I could not find the light switch or the GFCI breaker anywhere in the house, or next to the pool.
The landlord doesn't know where the switch is either.

Is there any way I can locate the switch?
I tried using a mobile app called "wire locator" to track the wires from the junction box, but that didn't work.

Thanks!

 

[Newdude]

Does the pool have a sub panel near the equipment? Many older pools have a simple light switch inside it, or nearby on a post.

 

[ajw22]

Do you know where the pump CB is? The light CB should be near it.

Pool lights are sometimes wired to a GFCI outlet near the pool.

Post pics of your equipment pad.

 

[beachhouse]

Does the pool have a sub panel near the equipment? Many older pools have a simple light switch inside it, or nearby on a post.

It does not. The equipment (timer, pump, heater) is connected directly to the main circuit breaker.
When you say "Many older pools have a simple light switch inside it", do you mean inside the pool?

 

[Sailsmaker89]

mine is over by the filter, after the breaker box, under the old timer box there is an outlet and a switch this setup dates to 2003

 

[Newdude]

When you say "Many older pools have a simple light switch inside it", do you mean inside the pool?

I meant inside the sub panel. If there was one by the equipment

 

[ajw22]

The pool has a Pentair light, and I can see the junction box next to the light, ~10 inches above the ground. The light has never been on, and I suspect the bulb needs to be replaced.

Use a multimeter and a cable trace toner to try and follow the wires connecting to the junction box.

Use the multimeter to confirm no voltage is on the wires when you open the junction box. Then connect the toner to a wire. Try and follow the wire with the toner. You may need a good powerful one to follow wires underground and into walls.

@Newdude is probably familiar with them.

Electricians know how to trace wires.

 

[Newdude]

I tried using a mobile app called "wire locator" to track the wires from the junction box, but that didn't work.

About half of the similar apps on Android are appropriately listed as ‘games’. I can only imagine they are as accurate as the ‘which Kardashian am I’ app.

 

[Newdude]

@beachhouse i have an outdoor light switch that I believe will be similar to what you’re looking for. I’ll post a pic after I get home.

It’s probably low to the ground, in a nearby garden and long disappeared into the plants/ shrubs grown around it.

 

[Newdude]

Ok I’m back. 10 mins past Yabba Dabba Do time, and yes I Yabba Dabba Did.


So two common ways to do this back in the day. A normal circuit breaker to the pool equipment with a GFCI powering the switch, or off in the yard closer to the pool.
This was out by my pool controlling street lamp thingies, but same principle. GFCI below protecting the switch and light. This was BURIED in plants when we moved in and I walked right past it for 3 months.

The other way would be to have a GFCI breaker installed in the main electric panel. The top one seen here is a GFCI breaker for the old pool but the lights just have a regular breaker because the GFCI was out in the yard.


If you had a GFCI breaker it may go to a random switch inside the house, probably near the patio doors.

The tricky part is how much do you want to throw at this ? If you locate the feed to the light, we can start to get answers but not being used for so long, there could be several problems. For starters you probably need a new light. The GFCI and switch could be long broke also. And there’s no telling how many times the landscapes found the dead wire while planting new greenery each spring.

But see if you can find the outside switch, then look at the breaker box to see if there are any GFCI breakers (hopefully labeled like mine). From there we can hatch a plan.

 

[beachhouse]

Thank you all. Here are some pictures:

1) Light with junction box


2) Equipment in the garden. Please note that this is beyond the pool, very far from the house. I would not expect the switch to be here



3) This is a closer view of the timer (which was recently replaced) and a mysterious switch. I think the switch was originally meant to control the socket next to it



4) The circuit breaker for the house. There is no specific circuit breaker for the pool. Unfortunately, most of the CBs are unlabeled



6) Finally, the junction box. I measured with a tester and there is no tension on the wires (I assume the green is the ground).



How would you further troubleshoot the problem?
I could not find any switches.

Thanks!

 

[Newdude]

How would you further troubleshoot the problem?
I could not find any switches

Then let’s go with the switch you did find. The distance isn’t a big issue. Wire was cheap back in the day and trenches were open to the equipment from the house and then on to the pool.

If you are comfortable working with electric *and only if*…….

Flip the switch and go test the junction box for voltage with a voltage detector. If the voltage detector screams, you probably only need a new light.

If locating is more involved than that, you’ll probably need an electrician to trace and kill the power to the circuit so it can be further isolated and fixed.

I can’t really advise further because if you knew how to work on live electric, you wouldn’t need us. Safety first.

 

[Newdude]

Hey Fabio, good morning. I had a 3AM thought when the best ones happen !! Lol

Go over to RevCo. (Google will take you there). It’s an electrical supply store tucked away where you probably wouldn’t find it on your own. They know every electrician in the land on a first name basis. They also know which ones take small jobs and many handyman types that would probably be more friendly on your wallet. There is no need to pay master electrician rates for simple diagnosing.

Explain your story about being on a shoestring budget at somebody else’s house and they will probably give you some solid options, be it who to call, or which cheaper meter/tracer you need.

 

[beachhouse]

Flip the switch and go test the junction box for voltage with a voltage detector. If the voltage detector screams, you probably only need a new light.

That's what I tried. I connected the multimeter to the cables in the junction box, but even if I flip that switch I get no voltage.
I'll ask around to see if someone can land me a wire locator.

 

[beachhouse]

Go over to RevCo. (Google will take you there). It’s an electrical supply store tucked away where you probably wouldn’t find it on your own. They know every electrician in the land on a first name basis. They also know which ones take small jobs and many handyman types that would probably be more friendly on your wallet. There is no need to pay master electrician rates for simple diagnosing.

Thank you so much! I'll contact them tomorrow morning.
This is gold

 

[Newdude]

I'll contact them tomorrow morning

If at all possible, go in person. It helps greatly to have a kind person in front of them then on the phone. They should have stools. Go have a seat and put your elbows on the counter like you belong there. Let them have a pow wow amongst the employees about how to help the nice guy waiting patiently, so greatful for their help.

they might send you home with some tools. They might tell you who to call too. But take the Uber if you have to.

 

[Newdude]

Fabio I Had more thoughts !! The guys behind the counter help the pros figure out what they need all day. Each and every pro shares their best story from the day before and laughs are had on both sides of the counter. So the counter guys have seen it all and heard it all. They’ve always been great there but still don’t know you. They’ll might size you up before giving out their friends phone #s.

Here’s how you convince them if it’s not too late. Grab a 12 pack of regular beer. No cheep stuff and no fancy stuff, but splurge $3 on bottles. When you walk in tell them that you’ve heard how helpful they are and wish to supply today’s happy hour in advance of their helpfulness. Now, they’re probably swamped with orders and phone calls so tell them you’ll patiently wait as long as they need to get a minute free. (10-15 minutes ?).

So before you said a word about your issues you have proven to be appreciative and reasonable. They will want to help you. As a matter of fact, you are now known as 12pack guy. 12 pack guy will become part of the folklore of the shop when they are trading memories at the Xmas party. ‘Hey!!!! Remember Fabio / 12 pack guy ??? I wonder how he’s doing’. Lol. But yeah.

If you need them again down the road they greet you with open arms because you’re old friends. (And of course, you supplied happy hour that day too).

 

[beachhouse]

LOL @Newdude

I plan to go there either this week or next week.
I'll let you know if I go there with beer or without beer

Thank you again for the tips!