Can be exhausting trying to teach the TFP methodology
- Thread starter JaySav
- Start date
Ha! I didn't mean to wax so esoteric. By invoking Descartes I was simply trying to get the point across that a science-based methodology focused on repeatability, keeping what works, throwing away what doesn't, and relying on experimentation ( read water testing ) to verify our hypotheses about the state of a system is the only way to actually get control of a complex chemical system like a swimming pool.
Magic potions, spells and voodoo simply do NOT work. Accepting this requires adopting a mindset of thinking like a scientist. Many people are simply unwilling / unable to do this. Part of the reason may be that they have believed bogus claims and bunk for so long that they have an emotionally vested interest in being "right".
Magic potions, spells and voodoo simply do NOT work. Accepting this requires adopting a mindset of thinking like a scientist. Many people are simply unwilling / unable to do this. Part of the reason may be that they have believed bogus claims and bunk for so long that they have an emotionally vested interest in being "right".
I think it has a lot more to do with coming to terms with how bad they were fooled. They were lied to, mislead and full blown swindled. To admit that to ones self takes quite a bit of pride swallowing. They have to hit the proverbial rock bottom first.
Then and only then will they be willing to listen. And when the path to pool clarity (both literally and figuratively) is a little challenging, many revert back to their old ways for one or two more Hail Mary’s.
mguzzy
Gold Supporter
Actually the pool store magic potions DO work.. but they need to be used for what they are intended and you need to know the downsides. The problem is the pool store sales people have no clue most of the time what they are telling people to do with it or what is even in them. They might as well be Voodoo witch doctors. Besides the fact that its over priced. You just have to take the magic out of it and understand what it is. There is science behind why copper based algaecides work, that is not disputed. But the side effects are not told Joe-Random pool owner when he buys it. And when it seems to work, then he buys more. Then he has copper staining.. or high CYA... or whatever.
Wax esoteric anytime.. I just need to get my existential underwear on first!
Sometimes the witch doctor's cures worked too, but I suspect it was more due to the patient inhaling the smoke from the ritual burning of ( probably medicinal ) herbs rather than the mumbo-jumbo gobbly-gook being chanted, or to blind chance, or the power of positive thinking due to the patient believing that the magic cure would work causing their immune system to react differently.
There are many fallacies along the way that can trip us up, especially the fallacy of always equating correlation with causation (Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc - After, therefore because of ). If we had not determined scientifically that exposure to UV radiation breaks down Chlorine in water, we would not be able to eliminate that variable in our hypotheses. A good example is the OCLT protocol, wherein we hypothesize that our water is free from organics and then test this hypothesis by measuring Chlorine levels over a time interval in which we have eliminated a variable that could potentially change and invalidate the results of our experiment. This is FAR more high-level thinking than the average person is routinely exposed to. The same types of protocols are used when diagnosing problems with an engine. for example. If you don't understand the principles behind what it is that you being told to do, they start to sound like magic and dogma.
The pool store guy, the builder and also pool services all seem to be speaking from a position of AUTHORITY, whereas to the average pool owner, we just appear to be some geeks on the internet telling them that almost everything they have ever been told about their pool is incorrect. Combine that with the "my way or the highway" approach that is sometimes taken on this forum, and it is not difficult to understand how some people may not take us at our word, even though we have thousands of man-years of actual EVIDENCE that our approach is the correct one.
There are many fallacies along the way that can trip us up, especially the fallacy of always equating correlation with causation (Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc - After, therefore because of ). If we had not determined scientifically that exposure to UV radiation breaks down Chlorine in water, we would not be able to eliminate that variable in our hypotheses. A good example is the OCLT protocol, wherein we hypothesize that our water is free from organics and then test this hypothesis by measuring Chlorine levels over a time interval in which we have eliminated a variable that could potentially change and invalidate the results of our experiment. This is FAR more high-level thinking than the average person is routinely exposed to. The same types of protocols are used when diagnosing problems with an engine. for example. If you don't understand the principles behind what it is that you being told to do, they start to sound like magic and dogma.
The pool store guy, the builder and also pool services all seem to be speaking from a position of AUTHORITY, whereas to the average pool owner, we just appear to be some geeks on the internet telling them that almost everything they have ever been told about their pool is incorrect. Combine that with the "my way or the highway" approach that is sometimes taken on this forum, and it is not difficult to understand how some people may not take us at our word, even though we have thousands of man-years of actual EVIDENCE that our approach is the correct one.
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mguzzy
Gold Supporter
- May 11, 2021
- 973
- Pool Size
- 7000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-30
I can related to the OP.
I have a friend that is "caring" for his pool for several years already. His pump runs 24/7, he replaces his DE twice a season, the cleaner runs almost 24/7....
He uses tablets for daily chlorination, once a week he drops cal-hypo pool shock in the water (he uses 50% "just in case") and once a month he uses a phosphate removal potion.
Works for him, but sometimes he complains on how much costs to "care" for the pool.
I considered introducing him to TFP.... but I gave up when he said he test his water once or twice per season...
Oh, he gave me an advice to be careful with algae because when they bloom it is hard to remove it... I can only guess why (sarcasm intended).
I have a friend that is "caring" for his pool for several years already. His pump runs 24/7, he replaces his DE twice a season, the cleaner runs almost 24/7....
He uses tablets for daily chlorination, once a week he drops cal-hypo pool shock in the water (he uses 50% "just in case") and once a month he uses a phosphate removal potion.
Works for him, but sometimes he complains on how much costs to "care" for the pool.
I considered introducing him to TFP.... but I gave up when he said he test his water once or twice per season...
Oh, he gave me an advice to be careful with algae because when they bloom it is hard to remove it... I can only guess why (sarcasm intended).
Oly
Gold Supporter
Easier to fool someone than convince them that they have been fooled.
Or, The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance.
Or, The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance.
To be honest, the most effective TFPropaganda is probably the amazing animated YouTube videos. Kudos to whomever made them, they are fantastic!
Oly
Gold Supporter
Agree with your overall statement but not your association above. Small thing perhaps but words mean specific things.
Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence an audience and further an agenda (ok so far, but method not agenda), which may not be objective (TFP is objective) and may be selectively presenting facts (not selective) to encourage a particular synthesis perception (method) or using loaded language (nope, rather facts and observations) to produce an emotional rather than a rational response (TFP is rational not emotional) to the information that is being presented.
*agrees with both points above about the actual meaning and it’s common misuse that has given it a new (commonly held but wrong) meaning.
Of course! I was joking... TFPropaganda just sounded humorous to me. I was not at ALL implying that it was propaganda in the political sense.
If I honestly thought that TFP was trying to establish some sort of Soyúznye Respúbliki or any sort of a Reich, I wouldn't be a supporter! LOL
If I honestly thought that TFP was trying to establish some sort of Soyúznye Respúbliki or any sort of a Reich, I wouldn't be a supporter! LOL
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TFProposal
TFProblem Solving
TFPerfection
LOL, on a roll now!
TFProblem Solving
TFPerfection
LOL, on a roll now!
*scratches Tri-chlor Fans Persecuted off the list.
Using some Tri-Chlor when opening if your CYA is low is a perfectly valid approach IMHO, as long as you know what you are doing and don't attempt to mix it with anything else...
