Cam'ing valves for freeze protection setup

[bdbull]

So we've officially gotten to the point where it's to cold to swim anymore. This will be our second winter with the pool as it was finished right before winter last year. I didn't know what I was doing last year so I just left it how the builder set it up. Now that I have a little more knowledge, I think I want to configure my plumbing a little different for the winter and just want to make sure my thoughts are correct.
We have the typical pool with attached spa that spills over into the pool. Currently, in freeze protection, it cycles between pool and spa. I don't particularly want to do that as I've read about frozen valves so I want to set it up so that I have flow to both pool and spa all the time. I think I can cam my valves to the spa side just a little to get some flow to and from the spa when in pool mode. It will create a little bit of a spillover, but I don't think it will be near as much as when in full spillover mode.
I'm thinking to cam the spa suction to about 15% open and the spa return to about 20-25% open. My thought is that I don't want to pull more water from the spa than I return to it as that will just lead to draining it into the pool and ultimately draining the pool through the overflow as the spa drains down.
Am I correct in my thinking, or at least on the right path? Some suction from the spa and a little bit more return to the spa? Will that keep everything happy and allow me to just have the pool on freeze protection?

 

[ajw22]

You are on the right path but will need to keep a close eye on how it works for you.

You need to get the valves balanced so you don't drain the spa.

Your spillover needs to be in good shape with no small cracks that let water behind that can freeze and cause damage.

With a hard freeze you may find your spillover icing up.

Good luck!

 

[bdbull]

You need to get the valves balanced so you don't drain the spa.

Well, as with anything I try to do on my pool, the first attempt was a massive failure. I (stupidly) adjusted the actuators today before I had to leave the house for a few hours. Came back and the spa was drained. I guess I got something wrong. I put it back to the way it was and gonna give it another go tomorrow when I can be home the whole day.

I figure as long as I return more water to the spa than I pull from it, I should be good, right? I mean that's essentially what spillover is. I just don't want a full spillover...more of a trickle over.

 

[DavidArmenB]

Yes, it is just a matter of balancing the valves to ensure more water can enter the spa than exit it. How much more is up to you. This is not something you can typically know or calculate without first experimenting with the valves and observing the changes.

 

[mas985]

The valves should not freeze if freeze protection comes on at the correct temperature. Where did you read this?

 

[bdbull]

The valves should not freeze if freeze protection comes on at the correct temperature. Where did you read this?

By frozen valves I mean frozen on the outside from snow, ice, freezing rain, etc. where the valve would be prevented from turning due to the ice buildup.

 

[mas985]

If you are getting ice on the outside of valves, I would not rely upon freeze protection at that point. That is too severe and warrants the draining of the pad equipment.

The Physics of Freezing and Freeze Protection

Recently, there have been a lot of questions from those living in moderate climates about using automatic freeze protection or running pumps to prevent freezing and what a pool owner should do when temperatures drop so I thought it might be useful to have a thread which dealt with the issue from...

www.troublefreepool.com

Also, given your location, I would not have expected that to happen. Once freeze protection turns on, it will help prevent the icing on the outside of the valves as well. Temperatures would have to be very low for a very long time for the outside to freeze like that.

 

[mas985]

I forgot to mention that you could also tarp your equipment so you don't have to worry about any accumulation of snow and/or ice. That will also raise the temperature under the tarp further protecting the equipment.

 

[bdbull]

Had some other things that needed to get done today since the weather was so nice so didn't get to spend a whole lot of time on this. I almost had it dialed in. I started with the return and got the spa to a nice, soothing trickle. Then I adjusted the suction and totally lost the trickle. Couldn't get it back before I ran out of daylight and put it all back.

However, I had a thought just hit me today that I think makes complete sense. As long as the spa is spilling over at all, then that means I am returning more to the spa than I am pulling from it. And that is my goal.

The only problem is I can't tell when and how much the suction is being adjusted. I think I need to study the manual of the valves to see where it actually is in relation to the handle turning.

 

[DavidArmenB]

How a Jandy Valve Works

 

[bdbull]

Finally got back to this today and had it dialed in exactly where I wanted it. However, when the pump turned off, the spa drained down to the level of the pool. I've since read that this is pretty normal if the spa drain is open, the pump is off and there's no check valve on the spa return, which happens to be my case. Since that pretty much eliminates how I wanted to set things up, I think my other option is to set it up how it was set up last winter. Set the return valve so that there is just a little bit of a spillover going into the pool. This will at least have flow in both returns and the pool suction, but misses the spa suction. I guess it's not ideal and not what I had envisioned, but it's how it was set up last year and it seemed to work ok.

I'll probably also set it to go to spa mode for 20-30 minutes once a week or so just to get some flow through the spa suction every now and then.

 

[DavidArmenB]

Yes, that is very normal if there is any pipe connecting the spa to the pool. Water will move from the higher body of water to the lower body of water until the levels equalize. Some put a check valve if they have access to the pipe.

 

[bdbull]

Yes, that is very normal if there is any pipe connecting the spa to the pool. Water will move from the higher body of water to the lower body of water until the levels equalize. Some put a check valve if they have access to the pipe.

OK. Thanks for confirming what I thought was going on. My suction has a single check valve on it right before it goes into the pump, but each suction line does not have a check valve. There's only about 6 inches of pipe exposed so it's probably not worth my time and effort to put one in. Given how this has gone so far I'd probably screw it up anyway.