Calcium scale and negative CSI in fiberglass pools

seribus

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2016
53
NC
I suspect both of those are a waste of time and can be eliminated? seems like I remember reading such. Does the clarifier not help group particles to catch in filter or no? I'm surely glad to not use them if staying balanced is sufficient.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
31,287
Laughlin, NV

There can be very specific instances that either of those items could be used. A polyquat60 algaecide can be useful when winterizing and closing a pool in the northerly climates.
Clarifier can be useful if after opening a pool from winter or from a swamp the last bit of particles are difficult to filter out. You must be passing multiple OCLT's and have no CC.
 

seribus

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2016
53
NC
Thank you for the links. I don't have much CC to speak of when testing.

"You must be passing multiple OCLT's and have no CC."

What is the OCLT abbreviation?

I really am thinking about putting salt back in and go back on SWG. I like the feel. Last year I was dialed in to TFP numbers and still had issues with ecofinish chalking. Told it was use of cal-hypo during open and/or higher chlorine levels. I wasn't fully sure of that and reviewed log i keep. I didn't use potions and highest FC maybe 7-10ppm for days at most. With the issues with finish I was holding off on swg in case the salt was staining. I think this ecofinish surface is going to get some oxidation and residue regardless how meticulous you are with water due to sun and chlorine. Seems like vinyl chalking or reminds me of that. Gets in your head about what your doing after a trying to do recommendations and no luck.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
31,287
Laughlin, NV
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
SWCG is the way to go.
Much of what I have read above in this thread concerning water chemistry and things you have been told are bunk. A very well respected Expert was an installer of Ecofinish and never had any issues like you all are.
 

drseuss

Active member
May 30, 2018
29
Pittsboro, NC
Hi seribus, I talked to someone at Tallman pools and at first they said they would get Tony to fix my pool for free. She called back today and said we would have to pay half. I'm still concerned about the same thing happening. I'm going to keep meticulous records even though ecoFinish says you don't have to. Well, apparently you do. I'm going to order the McGrayel products and not use chlorine. I'm going to use my SWG not to exceed 60% like Tony said. I hope you stay safe from the storm next week.
 

seribus

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2016
53
NC
After posting I took a magic eraser and swiped an area I noticed slight chalking, fading, oxidizing, staining or whatever we want to call it and blue came off. I do notice some traces of blue on vacuum tracks. I back washed and noticed a faint blue in water from sand filter during backwash. So I'm getting something going on even if it's slower to develop than previously. I followed the Ecofinish recommendations this time to the tee regardless of if they are bunk or not. Reason being if they call me on it then I suspect warranty has to cover right? The previous time I followed TFP recommendations with no luck. This is bordering on insanity to be honest. The short answer is no matter how precise you try to be it still seems to happen and they usually start by placing blame on your chemical routine and maintenance. My chlorine isn't and hasn't been over 4ppm all season with 55 cya the last I checked. Probably higher cya now since I use trichloro s. If that amount of chlorine is causing fading/chalking then this is a BS finish IMO. I will go back to salt this weekend but I don't see how it will make a difference since it's still chlorine and at 1-4ppm I wouldn't think it should fade. Also I used swg the previous years and still had all the issues. I'm at a loss to be honest. If the direct sun is doing it and it's expected then at least I get it, but they say no when you ask that. Keep me posted.
 

Kellyp

Gold Supporter
Silver Supporter
Jul 5, 2018
101
Acworth ga
Well, it doesn't help either of you, or anyone who already has FG, but for anyone else considering one, I'd run far and fast.

Around Atlanta they are same or more cost than gunite which I am supremely happy with.
 

drseuss

Active member
May 30, 2018
29
Pittsboro, NC
Hi seribus, you might want to call Tallman pools. Ask to talk to Rebecca. She was under the impression that only one other person had an issue with ecoFinish and that was someone that only had it in one spot where their floating chlorine dispenser was sitting in one spot in the pool. I didn't think that was you. This is what I'm concerned about. What happens if we pay to have this fixed and it just keeps happening? They better fix it again.

@Kellyp - they all have their issues. We wanted a salt water pool and didn't want to have to wear water shoes in the pool so we didn't scrape our toes.
 

Kellyp

Gold Supporter
Silver Supporter
Jul 5, 2018
101
Acworth ga
Hi seribus, you might want to call Tallman pools. Ask to talk to Rebecca. She was under the impression that only one other person had an issue with ecoFinish and that was someone that only had it in one spot where their floating chlorine dispenser was sitting in one spot in the pool. I didn't think that was you. This is what I'm concerned about. What happens if we pay to have this fixed and it just keeps happening? They better fix it again.

@Kellyp - they all have their issues. We wanted a salt water pool and didn't want to have to wear water shoes in the pool so we didn't scrape our toes.
No, your right of course, we all have different tolerances. Read your thread in one go and i felt awful for your problems, they frankly scared me.

We were one of the lucky ones, no problems with our build, salt is, indeed, wonderful and our finish came out smooth as an egg. I am sorry for your ongoing issues and stated it badly. Many good wishes for a happy resolution.
 

seribus

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2016
53
NC
Hi seribus, you might want to call Tallman pools. Ask to talk to Rebecca. She was under the impression that only one other person had an issue with ecoFinish and that was someone that only had it in one spot where their floating chlorine dispenser was sitting in one spot in the pool. I didn't think that was you. This is what I'm concerned about. What happens if we pay to have this fixed and it just keeps happening? They better fix it again.

@Kellyp - they all have their issues. We wanted a salt water pool and didn't want to have to wear water shoes in the pool so we didn't scrape our toes.

Seuss,

After storm last night I drained some water off. Kicked on SWG, added some ph down to nudge it down, added some CH to bring it up, Below are my numbers. I am still bringing things into TFP recs but have a -csi and to my understanding should have any chalking/fading issues. I do see see it starting. How often do you brush? I am not the most diligent but run dolphin vac quite often and brush seats, ledge and steps most.

FC 1.4 -> Bringing it up . SWG running on 60% and haven't shut inline completely down yet.
TA 90 -> probably a tad less since adding ph down.
pH 7.8 -> added 6 oz of pH down. Haven't went to buy muratic acid yet. Using ph down I have on hand.
CH 180 -> Have another bag to bring it over 200 into TFP recs
CYA 60-65 -> will down check again tomorrow
Temp 88
CSI -0.15
LSI -0.26
Salt was 4000 but hoping closer to 3600 after water purge and added some fresh back. Will check salt tomorrow. Added 7 bags of Morton's Pool Salt per bag. Over shot it a bit. Probably had some salt in sand filter from last year.

How are you fairing?

Seribus
 
Last edited:

drseuss

Active member
May 30, 2018
29
Pittsboro, NC
Hi Seribus,
I haven't heard from Tony so waiting on refinishing. Sent a long letter to the president of ecoFINISH. There are too many discrepancies in the stories we are being told. I'm not holding out hope that I'll hear back based off of other communications with them. If I don't hear anything, I'll go ahead with refinishing and keep meticulous notes on water chemistry and file a warranty claim next. Your experience after refinishing is discouraging. I still think there's something particular to our water here in NC that is causing these issues or something we either should or shouldn't be doing with this ecoFINISH product.

As far as brushing goes, I use the dolphin almost daily because we are in the pool almost every day. We also have a small hand held vac for the little stuff. I don't brush unless I see that it's needed. After refinishing, maybe I'll brush weekly. But, what happens during the winter if you don't brush. Doesn't make sense that you have to brush weekly. Our pool rarely has any debris in it longer than a day or two and it's always as clear as a bell. Occasionally, we'll see a little clouding, actually my husband sees it usually I don't, and we'll add about a half gallon of bleach and it clears up. That's where I'm going to have to switch to non-chlorine shock, I guess. We are not shocking weekly anymore with the Chlorox stuff, only bleach if we see the cloudiness. Our pool chemistry rarely changes. Tony said not to bring up CH so I haven't. Here's his exact words "Running the calcium low is recommended, so you're good there". My CH was 90 at the time.
 

duraleigh

Admin
Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
In The Industry
Apr 1, 2007
34,068
Sebring, Florida
I have not been following this thread but you are a bit confused on sanitation. "Clorox" is bleach is liquid chlorine. all the same stuff. Considering switching your sanitation to non-chlorine chlorine shock would almost surely be a mistake.

Please read "The "ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. That may help you get a better understanding of your sanitation requirements.
 

drseuss

Active member
May 30, 2018
29
Pittsboro, NC
Not confused. There are 5 types of chlorine. Bleach is sodium hypochlorite. I was told I can't use that in my ecoFINISH pool. A second type of chlorine is Calcium hypochlorite. Seribus was using that and was told it caused the issues with his ecoFINISH finish so we can't use that. A third type of chlorine is dichloro-s-triazinetrione which is what I was using with the Clorox xtra blue shock plus it has other ingredients. Stopped using that last year when I talked my husband into not using it. It took awhile, but I finally convinced him we didn't need to proactively shock the pool. I believe that I can use pure dichloro-s-triazinetrione tablets during the winter when my SWG won't work, but I'm going to have to clarify with ecoFINISH on that. Now I'm finding that I need very little "extra" chlorine in the pool because my SWG takes care of it. But, when we have parties, we need a little more of a boost. Because of this ecoFINISH finish, I have been told I have to use non-chlorine shock or potassium monopersulfate for those times. I'm not sure why you are saying non-chlorine shock is a mistake. Please clarify.
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
It's important to remember that regardless of the chlorine product or method of dispersion (SWG gas, liquid, powder, tab) they ALL have chlorine. What distinguishes between them all are the side effects. Our FG pools don't really need calcium, so cal-hypo is generally not required or can increase the CH level quickly which can be troublesome for an SWG cell. Trichlor (or dichlor) in powder or tablet form adds stabilizers which requires a higher FC level to compensate. An elevated CYA of 50-60 or so is fine in the summer for non-salt pools (70-80 for salt pools), but can be trouble when it goes over those ranges.

We recommend liquid chlorine or regular bleach (main ingredient sodium hypochlorite) simply because it's very easy to dose in the water and has virtually no side effects. With an SWG, there is usually no need to add extra chlorine (in any form) unless there is an immediate needs to increase the FC level. That can happen when the SWG goes down, there is a large party, or something unusual happened in the pool which may require the SLAM Process. The term "shock" (one-time large spike in FC) that many pool stores or people make in casual conversation can be misused or misunderstood by some and really has no bearing on what we do here at TFP since we never "shock" the water. It's always balanced consistently or it requires a SLAM if there is algae.
 
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seribus

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2016
53
NC
Just posting this as I keep up with surface to show water is dialed in for most part. Still not 100% perfect by TFP levels but in the acceptable ranges. I rarely shock like Tex says. I just do it in ou-oh instances when its fairly low. When I do shock I use the OXI stuff. Not using any clarifier or algaecide but have once or twice this season. I'm not using stuff like Jack's Magic or scaletec. I have IC20 running at 40% to see if that will keep me where I need to be. Based of these numbers I shouldn't see any issues I would think? Since March I've not been higher than FC 4 for any length of time. Maybe a day at 4-5 ppm. In my mind its not maint but either local water or EcoFinish isn't that great. Though I can't believe any plastic or vinyl with dark colors wouldn't fade some? Looking back at your pic Seuss I am not seeing that severity. I do though see some chalking/fading like texture again.

FC 3
Ph 7.6
Ch 230
Ta 90
Salt 4000
Temp 88
CSI -0.25
LSI -0.25
 

seribus

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2016
53
NC
Not confused. There are 5 types of chlorine. Bleach is sodium hypochlorite. I was told I can't use that in my ecoFINISH pool. A second type of chlorine is Calcium hypochlorite. Seribus was using that and was told it caused the issues with his ecoFINISH finish so we can't use that. A third type of chlorine is dichloro-s-triazinetrione which is what I was using with the Clorox xtra blue shock plus it has other ingredients. Stopped using that last year when I talked my husband into not using it. It took awhile, but I finally convinced him we didn't need to proactively shock the pool. I believe that I can use pure dichloro-s-triazinetrione tablets during the winter when my SWG won't work, but I'm going to have to clarify with ecoFINISH on that. Now I'm finding that I need very little "extra" chlorine in the pool because my SWG takes care of it. But, when we have parties, we need a little more of a boost. Because of this ecoFINISH finish, I have been told I have to use non-chlorine shock or potassium monopersulfate for those times. I'm not sure why you are saying non-chlorine shock is a mistake. Please clarify.

Seuss, where do you run your swg? 60% pushed me high and now I've backed off to try to get it to drift into range. Where do you run at daily?
 

drseuss

Active member
May 30, 2018
29
Pittsboro, NC
I haven't posted any photos of what my pool looks like now. You must be looking at the old pics. It's starting to look chalky again. My swg is at 60%. We are in it every day and on the weekends we generally have 6 or 8 others.