Buried Pool renovation

[michmela44]

The main reason for filling would be to reduce the amount of heat, etc necessary to maintain it.

It would also hopefully reduce the amount of slope and make the shallow end a little bigger where the kids would have more room to play games, volleyball, etc and more standing room for adults.

Since the 6 ft is tall enough that you can't touch, it can be swam in just as much as the 8.5 as you say, and we aren't letting them dive head first anyway, so we are thinking it might make the pool more enjoyable. We don't want to get stuck with a massive deep end that the kids don't want to go in.

 

[spd500]

I like the idea of filling it also. Last winter we rented a house in Vegas that had a pool and when we turned on the heater the pool was nice and toasty warm everywhere except the deep end where the water was still freezing cold.

Also, I like the idea that was mentioned about turning the spa into a tanning ledge or seating area, that should look really good.

 

[michmela44]

The tanning ledge will be off the side by the shallow end away from the spa where there is more sun.

I think we will either try to keep it a separate little area as was suggested or just take the wall down and leave the seat as a wall seat. I don't really want to lose the pool area.

 

[mguzzy]

I get it. I see the point either way. In my experience as my kids (and their friends) got older and learned to swim the depth became a non issue.. the whole pool was used for games (hide and seek, tag, etc). The diving games (first one to the quarter at the bottom) would hold their interest longer if it were deeper. I just don't want to see you design your pool for 10 years olds, when they will only be that old for a short time and the pool will be around for 20+ years. But it sounds like you are taking into account way more factors than most do.. so Carry on! nice job.

 

[michmela44]

I get it. I see the point either way. In my experience as my kids (and their friends) got older and learned to swim the depth became a non issue.. the whole pool was used for games (hide and seek, tag, etc). The diving games (first one to the quarter at the bottom) would hold their interest longer if it were deeper. I just don't want to see you design your pool for 10 years olds, when they will only be that old for a short time and the pool will be around for 20+ years. But it sounds like you are taking into account way more factors than most do.. so Carry on! nice job.

Well, in the beginning, I was all for keeping it deep. My wife was all for making it shallow. Go figure.

I have always been in the mindset that more people will complain that it's too shallow than too deep, but we also want to make sure we can swim in for as many months out of the year as possible. The kids want it to remain deep, but that's because they think we are putting in a big slide, even though we told them we aren't.

On the other side, at least from what I observe, even when we go to hotels, campgrounds, etc, most adults, etc still hang out in the shallower pools because they don't want to swim but just chill out in the water.

So I see both sides and we are still kinda on the fence, but are most concerned about keeping it heated. A guy I work with has a deep pool with no heater and he couldn't swim until late May/early June.

We want an April-October pool.

 

[mguzzy]

I like the idea of filling it also. Last winter we rented a house in Vegas that had a pool and when we turned on the heater the pool was nice and toasty warm everywhere except the deep end where the water was still freezing cold.

Also, I like the idea that was mentioned about turning the spa into a tanning ledge or seating area, that should look really good.

Sounds like they didn't have a bottom drain or never turned the valves to pull water from the bottom and mix it top to bottom to break up the thermocline. That happens to my pool in the winter time when I am not running the pumps as much.. it also will concentrate some of my chem additions down there too if I'm paying attention.

 

[mguzzy]

Well, in the beginning, I was all for keeping it deep. My wife was all for making it shallow. Go figure.

Split the difference and go 7ft.. that way when your tall friends come over they still have to tread water

 

[mlggator]

This is such an awesome story. I am so rooting for this pool to be a success. I will keep reading and watching this post.

 

[spd500]

Sounds like they didn't have a bottom drain or never turned the valves to pull water from the bottom and mix it top to bottom to break up the thermocline. That happens to my pool in the winter time when I am not running the pumps as much.. it also will concentrate some of my chem additions down there too if I'm paying attention

I really didn't mess with much of the plumbing so I am not sure. They had a YouTube video that they had recorded to show how to start the heat and control it from the pool/spa or both.

 

[mariane]

I wanted a shallow pool (ex-lifeguard, didn't want to see anyone drown). My husband said the kids would have more fun if deeper. Our specks only allowed 7 feet max (AGP) so we went 7 feet in the small deep end. Now that our 19 year old son will only swim when friends are in the pool and not really swim but hang out and play volleyball, they rarely use the deep end.
Maybe consider a sports pool 3.5 to 6 to 4.5 feet deep. If you could even do that with a reno.

 

[Kellyp]

Just one more opinion, everyone has a variety of them: I am partial to deep water, when me and little grandson are in the pool we are SWIMMING, not standing around.
You can stand in your air conditioning for a lot less than the 80 grand you'll spend on a pool.
Ultimately, go with your gut, whichever way you feel strongest, you'll regret it if you dont.

As far as swg, my 20 x 40 pool pump runs 10 hours per day, swg at 40/50% and i hold around 7 chlorine no problem. Can't understand why anyone would not have salt!

Good luck, following this thread with bated breath!

 

[Newdude]

when me and little grandson are in the pool we are SWIMMING, not standing around.
You can stand in your air conditioning for a lot less than the 80 grand you'll spend on a pool

Best point my humble opinion has seen to date. +1.

Ultimately, go with your gut, whichever way you feel strongest, you'll regret it if you dont

Another best point. + 1 again.

Can't understand why anyone would not have salt!

3-0 for the hat trick !!!

 

[joepaiii]

You will find lots of opinions here on SWG pools and the over whelming answer is YES! Just get one that is rated to twice the size of the pool. More than likely the PB has been working with pools with undersized SWG's and that is why they are not keeping up.

Yes you need to chip out all the old plaster down to the gunite even in a pool that wasn't buried to ensure a good bond with the new plaster. Bonding to the old plaster is a lazy short cut. And in your case where the pool was buried I wouldn't trust that the plaster bond to the shell isn't compromised. Given what you have done already.. chipping out the plaster is within your wheel house and the PB wont have to do it.

There is a lot of support around here for getting a separate spa. My pool has a built in spa and its a nice convenience but it probably takes a more to heat up since I have to heat up the concrete around it too. A stand alone spa will be more efficient. I like the idea of making that little semi circular area that the spa takes up a baja shelf.. it would be unique and would be an homage to the spa that was there.

If you only have electrical service at your house look into heat pumps.. you may be surprised that you can heat the whole pool for reasonable.

Speaking of homages, have you thought of saving some of the old tile as accents.. so you can say.. that was the OLD tile.. Also I have seen people make their own tile accents, painted by the kids or something.. Each kid had their own tile and they where put down in the deep end or elsewhere , where the could go "visit" thier tile.

What would filling in the depth of the pool do? Even if you never put in diving boards or features you could just leave it as deep as it is... If you can stand up then its the deep end whether its 6 or 8 feet. I like old school deep ends.. that's me.

Great progress so far. I love the descriptions of the PB has they come out and see your project.

Not all areas require chip out. Texas pools are commonly plastered over without a full chip-out. It isn't just laziness on the builder/plaster company. There is serious labor/cost to doing chip out vs bondcoat on existing plaster. I was talking to a co-worker who had to do a chip out which is required by the 2 or 3 time a pool is re plastered. It added about 2-3k of cost to the plaster job.

 

[mgtfp]

Speaking of homages, have you thought of saving some of the old tile as accents.. so you can say.. that was the OLD tile..

Love that idea!

And definitely go with a SWG. I think I would have filled in my pool a long time ago without one - certainty wouldn't have dug out one and then not install a SWG.

After all that work you'll have earned the right to sit back, relax and enjoy that pool - and not worry about having to schlep more chlorine home, or how to look after it while on holidays.

 

[BowserB]

There is my wife and me living here. Grandkids sometimes, but youngest is 13. All swimmers. We're just west of Houston. I grew up in Baton Rouge, and climate here is virtually the same. Hot, humid in summer. Cool and humid in winter. Spa, tanning ledge, deep water. Three areas of decisions to make if you move forward, if I've read your comments right. BTW, I'll be looking forward to the This Old House story of this pool recovery!

Spa I would do again, if I did another pool. We use it all summer long, and since we have gas heat, we use it in winter too. Often we take a bottle of wine out in the late afternoon. If we want noise, we turn on the air blower to the spa. The spa is where our daughter goes while her two girls are in and out of the spa and pool. Son in law doesn't come to swim. People in the neighborhood who want to swim have their own pools. Or they go to the county park pool (Whew! Just saying county park swimming pool gives me the heebee jeebees! Can you spell cryptosporidium?)

Tanning ledge. Huge waste of space. I wish we just had steps along the full width of that end of the pool. The tanning ledge never gets used. Never. It's just a big first step into the pool.

Deep end. Our pool builder recommended 5 ft. My wife wanted 6 feet. I wanted to be able stand on the bottom and rescue someone if necessary, or the rest of the time be able stand on the bottom while brushing tiles or just walk the entire area of the pool. As it is, the deep end is the quiet end, unless someone is there on a float--and in that case, it could be 6 feet or 10 feet or 3 feet deep. Five feet would be my choice. Practical and less water to treat.

 

[spd500]

We are adding umbrella holders and ledge loungers to our tanning ledge and I expect that it will probably get more use than any other part of the pool. The loungers are where I plan to drink my morning coffee and watch the news from now on !!

 

[bmoreswim]

Heat loss has very little to do with pool depth as it is mostly due to evaporation, and therefore surface area. Though a deep pool will heat up slower by the sun. Deep pools don’t stay cool though either. Our 8.5’ deep pool has been about 90+ for 2 weeks now, in Maryland (our warmest pool season though of 8). I don’t often go off the diving board, but love the deep end. Our pool is big though so other than not being able to play volleyball, it’s great. 6’ is not deep enough for a large person to do a cannonball and not hit bottom per a fellow moderator’s comments. Older kids will dive whether you want them to nor not. 6’ is deep enough to invite diving. You won’t always be at the pool when your kids teenage friends are there. 18 year olds don’t usually want their parents partying with them. Diving boards don’t often increase insurance, but I suppose they can. Trampolines are another story. Ours went down after the pool. Got cancelled due to the diving board and re-placed insurance for less. Long story. I can propose counter arguments for most reasons against a deep end. However, I can’t argue against the fact that you just don’t want one If that’s the case, for your use case, which is of course all that matters.

 

[CrystalRiver]

I concur that six feet is begging for diving.

 

[BowserB]

Here's a heating option you might find interesting. Down here in USDA Zone 9, we use our A/C systems 12 months out of the year. Here's a way to use the heat extracted from the house to heat your poor water at no cost (other than installation of the equipment, of course.) My wife is not comfortable getting into the water until about July 15 when the water is 90 degrees most days by 3pm. Then again after about the first of October, it's cold for her. OTOH, our A/C is running a lot from March through November, as well as often in December through February.

As always, do your cost-benefit analysis first. As part of a new installation it might work. As a retrofit, I suspect the payback would be far too long.

 

[michmela44]

Pool guy #1 came yesterday and this is the first person that actually was willing to look at it so far.

It was hard to gauge how he really felt about it and at some points seemed to be OK with the idea of renovating it, but also mentioned that he thought we should demo it and rebuild. We told him him we are either fixing this one or filling it back in, a new one isn't an option.

He took some measurements and asked a few questions, but I'm not really sure this guy was one of the people who actually works on the pools or really knew the most about them. It took him a bit to latch on to the idea that all of the concrete around the pool was coming up and we would have full access to replace anything we needed to replace.

A few things that stuck out to me through the interaction are:

• I asked him whether they normally used 120V or 12V lighting. some members of my family or concerned about electricity in the pool. He gave me a bit of a confused look as though it was a question he didn't normally have to answer and that 120V was the only ever used. Is this something to be concerned about? I know the lighting is grounded through the pool rebar, etc.
• My wife mentioned to him that we wanted to go with a saltwater pool. His initial reaction wasn't great. He asked why we wanted to go with saltwater and then gave a little speech about how everything is going to rust more. My understanding of a saltwater pool is that the salt content isn't really any more than a traditional pool, which isn't very much, which means I wouldn't expect the air to all of sudden be saturated with salt enough to cause a problem. I'm also in Louisiana where the humidity is very high and everything rusts like crazy. Not so sure I would notice a difference.
• I showed him the crack and mentioned that we had been looking into repairing it and mentioned the torque-lock stuff. He nodded when I said it but then later made a comment like "we normally just use staples". I have been watching a lot of videos about this stuff and obviously the guy who sells Torque-Lock clearly thinks his product is superior to everything else, and as someone who doesn't really know any better, I feel like I would trust that system more than gluing in the staples. What's the general consensus around here? Is Torque-Lock overkill for these types of cracks? I'd rather spend a little extra if its worth it to know we are getting a superior product, but is that pressure mechanism does nothing and the carbon fiber staples hold just as well, then maybe we'd just go with that. If spending an extra $1,000 to make sure that crack is repaired properly is what needs to be done, then so be it.
• For the bond beam, he said he thinks they would just replace it. Cut off the rest of it all the way around the pool and re-pour the entire thing. Make some sense or completely unnecessary if the portions that are left intact are in good condition?

He left and said he would email us something early next week, but we have a bit of mixed feelings about what type of quote this will be and whether they are actually interested in doing the work.

Pool Guy #1 called back today to tell us they are not interested in the job.