Bullfrog A7 getting heater may be dry, heater too hot after running for ~20 minutes, shuts down

[JoyfulNoise]

Okay so in order to try to get the bromine levels reading again I should again add:

- sodium bromide
- renew
- and increase number of tablets to around 3 and open up the feeder more?

He was saying the large number of tablets are why the bubbles were fizzing when jets were at high speeds

Just remember that the renew (potassium monopersulfate, KMPS) and the bromine tablets are very acidic. You need to not only monitor bromine levels but also pH and TA. Start off with your TA in the 80-100ppm range and see how that goes.

Hopefully you can find the right rate of consumption for the tablet feeder to keep the bromine levels stable. Using Renew, or any source of MPS, to constantly activate bromine is going to get expensive. This is why many people opt to use liquid chlorine or cheap laundry bleach (with no additives) to do the reactivating - it’s way less expensive.

 

[JamesW]

Did they just replace the motors?

Did you check the new amperage and compare it to the pump label?

Did you check the voltage?

Did you use the good seals?

Always get the better seals with Viton Elastomers, Carbon Primary Ring and a Polished Ceramic Seat.

Note: They also have a designer seal with different colors and designs, but it’s really not worth the cost as no one will see them anyway.

The designer seal brand is Louie Viton.

Pump Seals - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The designer seal brand is Louie Viton.

Me and Lou (that’s what we all called him) used to hang out in the hood on the corner when I lived in da’ Bronx. I always knew that loser was going to make something of himself even though he was lousy at stickball …

 

[bradgray]

Okay so in order to try to get the bromine levels reading again I should again add:

- sodium bromide

Only if you think you messed up the original dosage. Once you've created the reserve, it won't read at all until it's been 'activated' or oxidized. I wouldn't add more unless I was pretty sure I didn't give it enough based on the label instructions.

- renew

As Matt explained, this is a non-chlorine shock, and it has other implications in your water beyond activating the bromine. You can, in fact, add chlorine to brominated water. Bromine tabs have chlorine in them. Liquid chlorine is a very effective way to actually renew your bromine.
Edit * I sat there for a moment and felt compelled to use the disclaimer that there are situations where these cannot be mixed. But you can easily check the label of your bromine tabs and see if it says "bromo-chloro-dimethylhydantion" or similar. Im sure I spelled that wrong. "chloro" is referencing the chlorine mixture in the tab.

- and increase number of tablets to around 3 and open up the feeder more?

I would. Until you find that you are able to keep the bromine reserve at 3ppm fairly consistently, then dial it back. I would use liquid chlorine more often and rely less on the tabs if at all possible.

He was saying the large number of tablets are why the bubbles were fizzing when jets were at high speeds

Effervescence is usually from surfactants, but low pH can also contribute. This may be the correlation he was trying to make.

 

[RDspaguy]

Effervescence is usually from surfactants, but low pH can also contribute.

I've heard alot of theories over the years, but in my experience this is always associated with high sanitizer/oxodizer, and frequently it's bromine.
Maybe @JoyfulNoise can shed some light on "the fizz"?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Sorry. Not sure what you all are talking about in terms of “fizzing” and “bubbles” …

 

[JamesW]

I sat there for a moment and felt compelled to use the disclaimer that there are situations where these cannot be mixed.

Can you explain what can't be mixed?

 

[bradgray]

I've heard alot of theories over the years, but in my experience this is always associated with high sanitizer/oxodizer, and frequently it's bromine.
Maybe @JoyfulNoise can shed some light on "the fizz"?

I imagined typical foam. I'll let the OP clarify though so we don't confuse the symptoms.

 

[bradgray]

Can you explain what can't be mixed?

Mixing them dry is a no-no. Combining bromine pucks with trichlor pucks is also something we've seen homeowners do, and that's also a no-no.

And I read sometime a long while ago that there is a less-used version of bromine that's just straight up not compatible. But I don't recall what it was or the source of the publication. I'd have to look for it.

The point was that using the methods suggested here, it was fine. But it wasn't a catch-all truth statement for all circumstances.

 

[RDspaguy]

Sorry. Not sure what you all are talking about in terms of “fizzing” and “bubbles” …

As bubbles from jets or ozone reach the surface they fizz like soda pop. I have no other way to describe it. It does not foam, and you can see the tiny droplets dancing above the surface. Water is usually clear or slightly milky and smells strongly of chemicals. I am usually not there to do chemistry and so don't test it, but the times I have it had high sanitizer and low ph as I recall. MPS may be involved as well. It's not common, but I'd see it a few times a year.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

As bubbles from jets or ozone reach the surface they fizz like soda pop. I have no other way to describe it. It does not foam, and you can see the tiny droplets dancing above the surface. Water is usually clear or slightly milky and smells strongly of chemicals. I am usually not there to do chemistry and so don't test it, but the times I have it had high sanitizer and low ph as I recall. MPS may be involved as well. It's not common, but I'd see it a few times a year.

Hard to say but it could just be air that gets entrained as tiny bubbles in the water and then any kind of organic surfactants or oils can create bubbles that pop and fizz. My understanding is that the jet pumps are really powerful water pumps (several horsepower) that are pulling water and air in to mix. Anytime you do that, you're bound to make a tub full of human-flavored soda pop ....

 

[JamesW]

Some of it is dissolved gasses like carbon dioxide coming out of solution.

Air is constantly being mixed into the water causing gasses to be dissolved into the water and the bubbles come back out as the water gets saturated and the heat and agitation cause the gasses to come out.

 

[RDspaguy]

Some of it is dissolved gasses like carbon dioxide coming out of solution.

Air is constantly being mixed into the water causing gasses to be dissolved into the water and the bubbles come back out as the water gets saturated and the heat and agitation cause the gasses to come out.

That makes sense, but I'm stumped why I don't see it more frequently. If you've ever seen it, you'd know what I mean. It's unlike normal bubbles, and I've seen alot of those. And no foam, which in my mind rules out most surfacants.
Just one of those little mysteries I've run into over the years that I've never had an answer for. Yours is as good as any I've heard, but still leaves the "why this one?" up for debate. Oh well, what's life without a few mysteries, right?
Did I ever tell y'all about the disappearing water mystery? 500 gallons or so, gone without a trace overnight? No? Another time, perhaps.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I don’t think it’s mysterious … if you ever seen demonstrations of cavitations in long drain pipes, it’s pretty similar. If you put a valve on a drain pipe with water flowing through it and some clear plastic tubing you can throw the valve closed suddenly and you’ll see a very visible tiny bubbles form. The reason is the valve shuts off the water but the water in the pipe has momentum and keeps moving causing the water pressure to drop suddenly. A vacuum gauge on the pipe will show a very large drop in pressure. That vacuum effect causes any dissolved gas to come out of solution. It’s a form of cavitation.

The water coming out of the jets is pressurized behind the jet and then sent out into the open tub at basically atmospheric pressure. That sudden change in pressure could cause dissolved gases to come out of solution and then they would bubble up to the surface and fizz. Oxygen, nitrogen, and CO2 all have appreciable solubilities in water (nitro cold brew coffee anyone?) and so sudden changes in pressure can easily shift gases in and out of solution.

It would be fun if you could purposely recreate it, then you can have a fizzy hot tub party to wow your friends with … or just throw a few bath bombs into the tub before you need to change the water …

 

[Jay G]

or just throw a few bath bombs into the tub before you need to change the water …

I let my son (5 at the time) go nuts with Mr. Bubbles bubble bath one time right before a water change and purge (took the filters out before the soapy fun). I do believe that was the best day of his life so far. lol.

 

[RDspaguy]

The water coming out of the jets is pressurized behind the jet and then sent out into the open tub at basically atmospheric pressure.

Yes. This is the venturi. That low pressure point is where the air hose connects to draw in the air.
I think you're on to something here, but still don't understand why it is a fairly rare thing and not on every tub out there with jets. I get that each will have slight (or significant) variances in pressure depending on plumbing and equipment, but still. And in my experience there is definitely a chemical component, whatever physics are going on.
If it is vacuum related you should see a change by adjusting the air intake.

 

[JamesW]

Low pH creates more CO2.