Hi looking at purchasing A5L which is a 2 person tub with only 1 pump. There is an option for $750 to add circ pump. Is it necessary? Is it that much more efficient than main pump on low? Thoughts?
Bullfrog A5L SHOILD I ADD CIRC PUMP
- Thread starter Greg56
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 54,173
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Welcome to TFP.
You mean the
The dedicated Wellspring filtration pump is a quiet, vibration free, circulation pump that is more than eight times as effective as standard filtration pumps. Your spa will filter better, while consuming up to 60% less operating energy, saving you money.
www.bullfrogspas.com
@RDspaguy what do you think?
You mean the
Wellspring™ Dedicated Filtration Pump
The dedicated Wellspring filtration pump is a quiet, vibration free, circulation pump that is more than eight times as effective as standard filtration pumps. Your spa will filter better, while consuming up to 60% less operating energy, saving you money.
Hot Tub Water Care Systems | Easy Spa Maintenance | Bullfrog Spas
With our 3 easy-to-use water care systems, your Bullfrog Spa will always have pristine water. Learn how simple water care can save you time and money.
www.bullfrogspas.com
@RDspaguy what do you think?
It's benefits depend largely on how it's plumbed. And that's a typical manufacturers statement, all fluff and no substance. "Up to 60%..." but they never say "down to 5%...".
But I like a 24/7 circulation system that drives the heater and ozone generator (or uv) and would recommend any system that does so. A circ pump with a shaft like waterway is better than a magnetic drive like a laing or grundfos, but either is better than none. And a necessity if using ozone or uv (which I recommend) or even salt (which I don't recommend).
I am not familiar enough with bullfrog to say how they plumb them in, but expect it would be properly engineered. Some low budget manufacturers add stuff just to say they have it, but don't have a system engineered to utilize what it has. Bullfrog does not have this reputation.
But I like a 24/7 circulation system that drives the heater and ozone generator (or uv) and would recommend any system that does so. A circ pump with a shaft like waterway is better than a magnetic drive like a laing or grundfos, but either is better than none. And a necessity if using ozone or uv (which I recommend) or even salt (which I don't recommend).
I am not familiar enough with bullfrog to say how they plumb them in, but expect it would be properly engineered. Some low budget manufacturers add stuff just to say they have it, but don't have a system engineered to utilize what it has. Bullfrog does not have this reputation.
Rattus Suffocatus
Silver Supporter
- Jun 5, 2019
- 1,657
- Pool Size
- 14000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Universal40
In that small of a tub? Nah. I don't have one in my 3 (4, but not really) person and even with the pumps being completely out for a week (see my other thread) no issues with the water (except being cold). TFPing a hot tub means really you don't need anything special. If you don't have a circ pump the controller will run pump one several times a day on low to circulate and that's plenty (including when heating). Energy consumption isn't really a big issue with a well-insulated, covered small volume tub. It probably will take you 5+ years to make up that $750, honestly. Not to disagree with the spa guy, but if you are buying a small tub it's probably partially because you don't want to spend a small fortune on it.
One of the really nice things of a standalone spa, especially a small one like yours, is if you do screw up the water, ahh-some treatment, drain and refill makes it all good again (in a couple of hours total). It's a lot easier than a pool. I love mine even with me having to fix it after 3.5 years.
Bullfrog is a very good tub. I actually wanted to buy it over the one I got (Maxx, American Whirlpool) but the Boss (my wife) didn't like the squareness of the those tubs.. but the interchangeable jet panels? Awesome... Neighbor is getting one on Friday.. I want to see if he'll let me try it out.
He hired off the job instead of having me help (good with my current schedule), but I am still going to play inspector on the wiring...
So on a constant circulation tub like that, is that where the low-flow heaters come in? I wondered what those would be for? They are... expensive and hard to get right now....
One of the really nice things of a standalone spa, especially a small one like yours, is if you do screw up the water, ahh-some treatment, drain and refill makes it all good again (in a couple of hours total). It's a lot easier than a pool. I love mine even with me having to fix it after 3.5 years.
Bullfrog is a very good tub. I actually wanted to buy it over the one I got (Maxx, American Whirlpool) but the Boss (my wife) didn't like the squareness of the those tubs.. but the interchangeable jet panels? Awesome... Neighbor is getting one on Friday.. I want to see if he'll let me try it out.
He hired off the job instead of having me help (good with my current schedule), but I am still going to play inspector on the wiring...So on a constant circulation tub like that, is that where the low-flow heaters come in? I wondered what those would be for? They are... expensive and hard to get right now....
I have an A6, with a second jet pump (not a circulation pump)
To me the second jet pump is a much better add on than the circulation pump. Having a second jet pump lets you run half the jets at one speed (off, low, or high) and the other half at a different speed. My wife and I do this all of the time.
It also makes the jets stronger (if that is your thing) because it is only pushing water through half the plumbing. I tested tubs with one jet pump and with two and the two were much better (in my opinion again). Granted the A6 is bigger than the A5, and if you go up to a A7, then your only option is two jet pumps - they don't make a one pump A7. So maybe the single pump matters less in an A5
You will hear a bunch of comments about the benefits of a circulation pump. Electricity savings and saving wear on the jet pump. My tub the jet pumps so infrequently that I doubt there is much of a savings if any with a 24/7 circulation pump. RS made good points about keeping the tub clean. There is likely a savings on wear and tear on the jet pumps, but $750 is tough to make up.
I can definitely see how it would make sense with ozone, especially in a Bullfrog unit. Bullfrog uses a batch process with it's ozone system. It fills a canister with water, then bubbles ozone through the canister and vents any excess ozone through a filter, then returns the treated water in the canister to the tub. It then refills the canister and repeats. Clearly a 24/7 process will ozonate more water than if your tub only runs a filter cycle every few hours. But again, your main source of sanitation should be Cl, not O3
To me the second jet pump is a much better add on than the circulation pump. Having a second jet pump lets you run half the jets at one speed (off, low, or high) and the other half at a different speed. My wife and I do this all of the time.
It also makes the jets stronger (if that is your thing) because it is only pushing water through half the plumbing. I tested tubs with one jet pump and with two and the two were much better (in my opinion again). Granted the A6 is bigger than the A5, and if you go up to a A7, then your only option is two jet pumps - they don't make a one pump A7. So maybe the single pump matters less in an A5
You will hear a bunch of comments about the benefits of a circulation pump. Electricity savings and saving wear on the jet pump. My tub the jet pumps so infrequently that I doubt there is much of a savings if any with a 24/7 circulation pump. RS made good points about keeping the tub clean. There is likely a savings on wear and tear on the jet pumps, but $750 is tough to make up.
I can definitely see how it would make sense with ozone, especially in a Bullfrog unit. Bullfrog uses a batch process with it's ozone system. It fills a canister with water, then bubbles ozone through the canister and vents any excess ozone through a filter, then returns the treated water in the canister to the tub. It then refills the canister and repeats. Clearly a 24/7 process will ozonate more water than if your tub only runs a filter cycle every few hours. But again, your main source of sanitation should be Cl, not O3
Well, since there seems to be alot of confusion, let me clear it up. The bulk of the savings comes in at fill up. Depending on the volume and temp of the fill water, you can spend a long time running that low speed pump at around 4 amps or that circ pump at 3/4 of an amp. And that 10-12 hours of non-stop running is hard on a jet pump and will result in increased part replacement long term. And having 24/7 low flow filtering can decrease the length of your filter cycles, saving yet more energy and wear. But we are talking about a few dollars a month here, and the "savings" will never pay for the upgrade
The advantage to a circ pump is not saving money, it's getting the most out of your ozone/uv or built-in salt cell. Which makes it worth every dime in my opinion.
I agree that the second pump is nice in a big tub, but is not always an option in smaller tubs.
The advantage to a circ pump is not saving money, it's getting the most out of your ozone/uv or built-in salt cell. Which makes it worth every dime in my opinion.
I agree that the second pump is nice in a big tub, but is not always an option in smaller tubs.
The point about heat up on a water change makes a lot of sense. I also agree that somebody will likely not make their money back on the upgrade either (this is not like a pool where you can upgrade a standard pump to a VS, you need to add in a whole new pump, plumbing, etc)
I also see how it would really help when using ozone.
I have the A7 with 3 pumps (2 dual-speed main pumps + one-speed circulation pump). The circulation pump is MUCH quieter than either main pump on low speed, and the circ pump handles the heating, ozone, and filtering cycles without engaging either of the main pumps (aside from filtering, where it does a 60second high-speed run of each pump prior to filtering). The circulation pump does NOT run 24/7 unless you configure 24hr filtration (default is 4hrs/day). It runs as needed - heating, filtering, and periodic temperature checks. Ozone runs during heating and filtering, and only if no controls have been touched for the past 15-30 minutes. If I were to buy the A7 again, I would definitely get the circulation pump again.
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Both a circulation pump based system and a non-circ pump system work fantastic. Truly two different ways of accomplishing the same task. My personal feeling is the circ pimp is not necessary. It is an additional pump that could fail and entails additional plumbing and fittings. I am not against the circ pump, just that I don’t feel it is needed. I could have ordered my tub with a circ pump but chose not to.
Please keep in mind to look at the number of speeds on the jet pumps. Some manufacturers will use the circ pump as reason to only offer single speed jet pumps. Personally I love being able to have pumps on low speed or high speed (2 of 3 jet pumps on my tub are dual speed). Many brands do offer diverters as well to achieve (in sort of a roundabout way) similar results of adjusting jetting intensity.
Please keep in mind to look at the number of speeds on the jet pumps. Some manufacturers will use the circ pump as reason to only offer single speed jet pumps. Personally I love being able to have pumps on low speed or high speed (2 of 3 jet pumps on my tub are dual speed). Many brands do offer diverters as well to achieve (in sort of a roundabout way) similar results of adjusting jetting intensity.
I have the circulator on my A5L. It probably saves wear on the main two speed jet pump, but at least on our deck, it isn’t all that much quieter. There is a 60 Hz hum from the pump. Unlike my previous tub (Hot Springs) the Bullfrog’s circ pump is neither silent nor 24/7, but it is more powerful and does a better job with filtering. I almost never have to vacuum up the tub floor.
If you opt to skip the circulator, just get into the habit of setting up the jet valves to reduce surface turbulence when you get out of the tub. That way the main pump could work pretty quietly during the filtering / heating cycles.
Edit… To be clear, I’m sure the circulator pump is much quieter for installations on a concrete pad. It’s just that our deck is acting as a sound board making the 60 Hz motor hum more audible. We made sure to remove the shipping bolt which helped, and placing 1” recycled rubber pavers under the tub also helped. I even applied heavy noise dampening material typically used for car audio on the equipment access panel. When a tub sits outside a master bedroom, you tend to notice sounds more.
If you opt to skip the circulator, just get into the habit of setting up the jet valves to reduce surface turbulence when you get out of the tub. That way the main pump could work pretty quietly during the filtering / heating cycles.
Edit… To be clear, I’m sure the circulator pump is much quieter for installations on a concrete pad. It’s just that our deck is acting as a sound board making the 60 Hz motor hum more audible. We made sure to remove the shipping bolt which helped, and placing 1” recycled rubber pavers under the tub also helped. I even applied heavy noise dampening material typically used for car audio on the equipment access panel. When a tub sits outside a master bedroom, you tend to notice sounds more.
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