Builder suggesting single speed pump

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pickle11d

Member
Feb 20, 2025
10
Mechanicsburg PA
Pool Size
25000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
All,

I am in final stages of before signing contract and ordering pool parts with builder.
  1. Vinyl pool
  2. Ell Shape (25,000 gal)
  3. Salt water cell
  4. Natural gas heater
  5. 2 LED lights
  6. no diving board
The builder is adamant that a single speed pump is fine. He spec'd a Hayward Super Pump 700. He claims a variable its waste of money for me. (He is fine with me doing it as he said the cost and markup are higher)
I am wanting as much automation as possible on the maintenance side (either now or ability to add in future). I dont believe the super pump 700 allows for automation

He said he can do a Pentair Intelliflo VS+SVRS pump. Any thoughts on that brand for variable pump?


Is there value (other than cost to run) for having variable for cycling or heating over single speed?





Thanks!!
 
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pickle11d said:
All,

I am in final stages of before signing contract and ordering pool parts with builder.
  1. Vinyl pool
  2. Ell Shape (25,000 gal)
  3. Salt water cell
  4. Natural gas heater
  5. 2 LED lights
  6. no diving board
The builder is adamant that a single speed pump is fine. He spec'd a Hayward Super Pump 700. He claims a variable its waste of money for me. (He is fine with me doing it as he said the cost and markup are higher)
I am wanting as much automation as possible on the maintenance side (either now or ability to add in future). I dont believe the super pump 700 allows for automation

He said he can do a Pentair Intelliflo VS+SVRS pump. Any thoughts on that brand for variable pump?


Is there value (other than cost to run) for having variable for cycling or heating over single speed?





Thanks!!
Click to expand...
You do not want a single speed pump or an SVRS pump. The variable speed pumps allow you to run it much slower which saves tons of electricity, it’s way quieter, and will often filter water better. The only downside to the VS pump is the initial cost.

Note the single speed pumps are being phased out by regulations.
 
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Wow, that would be a huge red flag to me. A variable speed pump will pay for itself, plus in 2021 regulations outlawed selling single speed pumps as the main pump. That means he is trying to sell you something that has been sitting in a box for at least 4 years, likely many more. Besides the operating costs, good luck finding replacement parts for obsolete equipment down the the road.

Dont let your builder talk you into pawning off their old inventory on you. Are you getting automation as well? If so, post up those model numbers as that is another area where builders will try to sneak in old equipment.

The Intelliflo is a great pump, just don't get the svrs one. Lots of people report issues with the svrs being too sensitive and shutting down the pump for no reason. Plus having 2 drains mitigates the risk that svrs was designed to mitigate, without the headache.


Pentair - IntelliFlo VS SVRS Problem

Hi All - new to the forum and about 4 years pool ownership experience. Three seasons ago I was persuaded to purchase the Pentair IntelliFlo VS SVRS by a pool technician I no longer use because of mistakes that he previously made. I also have installed the Pentair DE FNS Plus 48 with the pump...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
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Get automation and a variable speed pump so that the pump can run at low speed while the heater is off and increase speed when the heater turns on.

Ask the builder if he will pay for the electricity to operate the single speed pump.
 
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pickle11d said:
  1. Salt water cell
Click to expand...
Get at a MINIMUM a 50K cell. 60K cell would be even better. At least 2x your pool volume.
pickle11d said:
  1. Natural gas heater
Click to expand...
Get the largest one you can afford. It will not cost more in gas to heat the same water, a BTU is a BTU. A larger heater will heat the water faster.

Get the largest cartridge filter you can get. The Pentair CCP420 or 520 are excellent.

Get a Pentair 3hp Intellifo3 without SVRS.
 
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TinFoilHat said:
I would believe that the builder would be breaking the law to install the single speed pump. If you installed it yourself it would be legal, but it's illegal for anyone in the profession to install one new or as a replacement.
Click to expand...
That is incorrect.

Pool pumps manufactured for use in and imported for use into the U.S. after July 19, 2021, must meet new minimum efficiency standards.


There is no time limit on selling and installing non-compliant pumps that were in the US before that date.

In addition, there are single speed pumps compliant with the DOE minimum efficiency standards.
 
Which electric bill would you rather pay for 15+ years ? The top pic is where my SWG turns on and the lowest speed I'd need to run the bulk of the time. The bottom pic mimics a single speed 3HP pump at full bore.


Screenshot_20231010_192222_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20231010_192218_Chrome.jpg


Ooopooo. Please excuse my terrible manners. Welcome to TFP !!!! :wave:
 
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Understand costs and warranties before you sign anything. For example, if automation is in your future, there are advantages to taking the plunge now:
- I think it fair to predict prices are not going down, and due to our present, uh, economic situation, prices could go up dramatically. Now is the time to buy.
- Pentair sells automation and SWG bundles, that would save money over buying them separately. If you buy a bundle, see if the builder will share the savings with you.
- Automation controllers can be purchased with a circuit breaker bank built in. If you don't buy it now, he'll charge you for a separate breaker box, as well as wiring it up. If you add automation later, that includes the breakers, you'll pay again for the wiring, and the abandoned original breaker box will be a wasted purchase.
- Pentair extends their warranty to three years if you buy certain items and all of them on the same invoice. Like a VS pump, automation and filter. Not everything purchased on the invoice will get the three-year bump, but some items will. I think the heater would qualify. You might have to call Pentair to get the details confirmed, because it sounds like your builder might not have all the facts about pool equipment.

So if your builder knows what he's doing regarding Pentair, you could get a better price now than in the future, you should be able to save some money buying the automation/SWG bundle, and if he invoices correctly, you'll get the three year warranty.

Based on the description of his actions so far, I'd say you need to figure some of this out yourself, and then double-check that he shares some of the discounts and applies for the warranty correctly. I had to ride my contractor to get all that to happen, you probably will, too, if you decide to go that route.
 
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This page reads like your light and SWG will also receive the extended warranty if purchased on the same invoice with the other stuff, but I've also read otherwise. Again, that kind of detail should be confirmed with Pentair, instead of with your builder, so you know exactly what to expect.

www.pentair.com

Pool Product Warranty Information

Whether you are planning a pool party for friends and family or prefer the serene sensation of a calm pool, Pentair has the pool and spa solutions just for you.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

This is all assuming you even want Pentair equipment, or your builder can even sell it. But Pentair is a very well respected brand, and some here would say the Cadillac of pool gear (I would).
 
UPCOMING DOE REGULATORY CHANGES – “MOTOR RULE" (2025/2027).

FAQS FOR POOL PROFESSIONALS

Q: WHAT IS THE DEDICATED PURPOSE POOL PUMP MOTOR RULE (DPPPM)?

A: The DPPPM rule, which was published in September 2023, is an upcoming Department of Energy regulation that applies to dedicated pool pump motors which specifies performance and/or design requirements based on Total Horsepower (THP) thresholds.

Q: DOES THE DPPPM RULE JUST AFFECT SPARE MOTORS OR DOES IT AFFECT COMPLETE PUMP ASSEMBLIES TOO?

A: The DPPPM Rule affects BOTH spare motors AND complete pumps.

Q: WHAT ARE THE TOTAL HORSEPOWER THRESHOLDS AND DESIGN REQUIREMENTS?

A: The DOE DPPPM Rule defines the requirements for the following THP classes:

Motor THP
THP less than 0.5
0.5 ≤ THP < 1.15
1.15 THP ≤ 5
Design Requirement
69% Full-load efficiency (single or variable speed)
Must have variable speed motor control
Must have variable speed motor control

Q: WHEN DOES THIS NEW DPPP MOTOR RULE TAKE EFFECT?

A: The new rule takes effect in two phases based on THP:
DOE DPPPM Phase
Motor THP
THP less than 0.5
DOE DPPPM Effectivity Date
September 29, 2025
Phase 1
1.15 THP 5
Phase 2
0.5 THP < 1.15
September 28, 2027

Q: CAN I SELL AND/OR INSTALL PUMPS AND MOTORS AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE IF THEY WERE MANUFACTURED BEFORE IT?

A: Yes, the new DOE regulations only affect products manufactured on or after the effective dates (September 29, 2025/September 28, 2027).

Pool builders, pool servicers and pool stores may still sell and install pumps and motors which do not meet the new rule as long as they were manufactured prior to the effective date.

Q: WHAT ABOUT PUMPS AND MOTORS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY SOLD OR INSTALLED?

A: Previously sold or installed pumps and motors are not subject to the new DOE regulations. Equipment already in service does not need to be replaced to meet the new rule.

Q: WHAT ELSE DO I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE NEW DOE REGULATIONS?

A: While non-compliant pumps or motors can no longer be manufactured after their respective effectivity dates, there are already plenty of compliant models that ensure you can continue business as usual:

>> All Hayward Variable Speed and XE Ultra-High Efficiency pumps are compliant beyond 2027
>>> Includes all VS & XE power-ends which can be used to replace worn out single-speed motors
>>> Many Hayward high efficiency single-speed pumps are still compliant though September 28th, 2027:
>> 1.1 THP and smaller Hayward Super Pump® models
>>> 1.1 THP and smaller Hayward MaxFlo® XL models
>>>> 1.1 THP TriStar®
>>> Most above-ground pumps and pressure cleaner booster pumps will remain single-speed
 
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JJ_Tex said:
Wow, that would be a huge red flag to me. A variable speed pump will pay for itself, plus in 2021 regulations outlawed selling single speed pumps as the main pump. That means he is trying to sell you something that has been sitting in a box for at least 4 years, likely many more. Besides the operating costs, good luck finding replacement parts for obsolete equipment down the the road.

Dont let your builder talk you into pawning off their old inventory on you. Are you getting automation as well? If so, post up those model numbers as that is another area where builders will try to sneak in old equipment.

The Intelliflo is a great pump, just don't get the svrs one. Lots of people report issues with the svrs being too sensitive and shutting down the pump for no reason. Plus having 2 drains mitigates the risk that svrs was designed to mitigate, without the headache.


Pentair - IntelliFlo VS SVRS Problem

Hi All - new to the forum and about 4 years pool ownership experience. Three seasons ago I was persuaded to purchase the Pentair IntelliFlo VS SVRS by a pool technician I no longer use because of mistakes that he previously made. I also have installed the Pentair DE FNS Plus 48 with the pump...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...
What is "SVRS"... new to this stuff.

I think the builder has good intentions. He's definitely old school... I would LOVE automation but not sure it will happen at first. I definitely what it eventually. Im a "work smart, not hard" kinda person.
 
pickle11d said:
What is "SVRS"... new to this stuff.
Click to expand...
Its French for 'pump shuts off randomly and without warning'.

The theory is it senses a suction resistance and shuts off to protect the swimmer who got stuck. But it nuisance trips alot. I'd estimate mine went well over 100 times in 6.5 years without once needing to.

Multiple skimmers and VGBA drain covers remove the need for a SVRS.
pickle11d said:
I would LOVE automation but not sure it will happen at first. I definitely what it eventually. Im a "work smart, not hard" kinda person.
Click to expand...
Automation is way oversold IMO. Sure there's some complicated setups out there that it really benefits, but i don't see the need to spend possibly thousands of dollars to turn your heater up remotely. If you're not around to test, you dont know how to adjust the SWG (down or up), so the fact that you can doesn't mean much.
 
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Wow, thanks all for the suggestions. Definitely learning a lot!! I will ask about the SWG cell size and post it here once i know.
As for the pool filters, I've done a lot of reading and seems like it depends on which site you look at for suggestions. The builder is highly suggesting a DE filter.

Is here a good suggestion for pool pump HP size? im seeing alot of calculations and pump charts but without knowing exactly how many bends in the pipes, its hard to calculate head.
 
Newdude said:
Its French for 'pump shuts off randomly and without warning'.

The theory is it senses a suction resistance and shuts off to protect the swimmer who got stuck. But it nuisance trips alot.

Automation is way oversold IMO. Sure there's some complicated setups out there that it really benefits, but i don't see the need to spend possibly thousands of dollars to turn your heater up remotely. If you're not around to test, you dont know how to adjust the SWG (down or up), so the fact that you can doesn't mean much.
Click to expand...
interesting take on that.... most people say "get it" so thank you for your honest take.

Thanks!
 
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pickle11d said:
What is "SVRS"... new to this stuff.
Click to expand...

Forget about SVRS. Just don’t get it. focus on what you should do.

pickle11d said:
I think the builder has good intentions. He's definitely old school... I would LOVE automation but not sure it will happen at first. I definitely what it eventually. Im a "work smart, not hard" kinda person.
Click to expand...

Automation is best done and least expensive when everything is compatiable.

Get an IntelliFlo3 pump, IntelliChlor IC40 SWG, Pentair MasterTemp heater, all controlled by a Pentair IntelliConnect system. IntelliConnect will also control the lights.

I like DE filters if you are comfortable handling DE and have a place to dispose it. Others here like large cartridge filters if you can handle the labor of cleaning them.
 
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