Bright Blue Milk!!

[Shellalewis]

Hi. I’ve been reading with great interest many posts on this forum as its absolutely the best I’ve found! We are in SW France, so the only problem I have is the unit conversions and substitutes for products available here!

We inherited a 144000l pool (12m x 6m overall size - 1.2m at shallow end and 3m at deep end). It runs with a sand filter and we sanitise with chlorine tablets in the skimmer. Heated to 30degrees by a heat pump.

For the last couple of years we have been learning how to balance the water, and were getting pretty good - but this year…not so good!

We noticed that the water, although clear, seemed to have a green tint. After some research I tested the yellowish brown stains on the pool walls (below water line) and found the vitamin c tablet cleared it immediately…so metal staining right?!

I bought myself some metal stain remover which fairly successfully lifted the staining off the walls…I then added a sequestrant to hold the metals in the water. The products used suggested lowering the chlorine level before use, and then raising it slowly after treatment to reduce the chance of the sequestered metals re-staining.

Fairly straightforward…or so I thought!
However, I noticed that my TA reading was off the chart so also added Hydrochloric acid (muriatic!!) to lower this. BTW I wait a good 4 to 24 hours in between various chemical additions.

My problem now is that the pool has become a milky, albeit blue, soup! For 2 weeks now!

I went to the pool store with a water sample…they sold me an anti-phosphate after trying to sell me another sequestrant (decided the pool store isnt going to be of much use to me!!) Added this…no change.

I have tried adding a few cups of DE to my sand filter(which runs 24/7 and is babysat in terms of backwashing)…no change.

I am adding tub loads of chlorine shock tablets to the water, which seem only to raise the FC level short term before it disappears to 0 again (it doesn’t hold overnight and I notice a chlorine smell which, combined with a higher TC means CC right? So I keep adding more!)

I feel as though I am dumping chemicals in left right and center…but nothing is making any difference. Am I cancelling myself out, or using incompatible chemicals?

The average pool readings throughout the last couple of days(I’ve started to log every couple of hours in desperation!) have been:
TH: 100
TC: 5
FC:3
PH: 6.6
TA: 140
CYA: 0

We have a gite here and so paying guests…I NEED to get a hold on this cloudy water problem FAST!!

Pleeeease help!!!
(Photos of just after adding ascorbic acid to treat metal stains…and our current blue soup!)

 

[Katodude]

Bonjour!!

We are going to need to figure out how to get you a good test kit. Do not rely on the pool store, for example if you have been adding chlorine tablets there is no way your CYA is 0. Also you will need liquid chlorine. You will need to find that fast. Those chlorine tabs are not helping you at all.

The quickest way to potentially fix this might just be a complete water exchange. You have metals in your water that are now in solution, draining the water will get rid of them. You probably have high CYA due to all the tabs, draining the water will get rid of that too. Do you know how high the water table is where you are, is there any risk of the pool popping out?

This way you start with fresh water. We add just the amount of CYA you require based on the size of your pool. And you dose with liquid chlorine.

 

[Mike1162]

Is the Taylor K-2006c test kit available in France?

 

[Shellalewis]

Salut!! Thanks for replies!

I’m currently using test strips that test the 6 elements in my post. I’ve tried to find the Taylor 2006 in France but it seems to be ‘currently unavailable’!

For as long as we’ve had the pool we’ve used the ‘pucks’ but never once had a positive CYA reading?!

No idea about the water table, but the pool is a concrete in ground pool with an applied fibreglass layer - not a drop in fibreglass shell…does that make a difference? In fact when we bought the house the pool had been empty for a couple of years.

I’ve not found liquid chlorine yet…but may be able to order it online for future use.

I too am coming to the conclusion it may just be sensible to drain and refill…do you think this would have to be completely or partially?

Thanks.

 

[Mike1162]

I too am coming to the conclusion it may just be sensible to drain and refill…do you think this would have to be completely or partially?

I don't believe anyone can answer that without results from a recommended test kit.

 

[Katodude]

So that is the problem with test strips, they are inaccurate. We call them guess strips. Just to confirm can you look at the package and tell us the ingredients. Just want to make sure they are Tri-Chlor.

Also you NEED to find Chlorine or Bleach (make sure the bleach is unscented or does not have additives). You can also check places that supply janitors or cleaning places. This is very important.

And finally keep looking for a test kit.

Here is an example of what people in the UK are doing. Maybe you can find some of those things listed.

This is what we have for the UK --
How to Buy LaMotte 7002 FAS-DPD Commercial Series Kits (FAS-DPD Commercial 7 Kit):
UK: poolandspacentre.co.uk or sword-scientific.com or pro-swim.co.uk

How to Buy Palintest: [SP 315C (similar to K-2005) AND/+ SP 300 FAS-DPD chlorine test]
UK: Tel: +44 (0) 191 491 0808 ext. 208 Email: [email protected] or camlabworld.com or pool-chem.co.uk

How to Buy Lovibond test kit:
UK: pro-swim.co.uk or lovibondwater.com or leisureteq.co.uk

 

[NowintersinAZ]

Try ebay in France for a taylor K-2006

 

[Shellalewis]

Okay…thanks!
Just to check…can I use ‘household’ bleach if it is, as you say, unscented etc?

I will look into the test kit…I can get K2006 from the US in about a week for €120…is that reasonable? Although there may be customs charges??!!
Will check out the UK equivalents too…thanks.

For now, I need to keep this pool in action if possible…so may try a partial drain and refill…

 

[Shellalewis]

Hi NowintersinAZ…had a look, but they don’t post to France

 

[Katodude]

Yes household bleach without additives is fine.

120 Euro for K-2006c (make sure you get the c) is reasonable.

I would do full drain if you can. That way until you get your test kit we know what we are dealing with. We can use the tabs to get your CYA to 30, and you can use bleach.

The drain will also rid you of the iron in your water.

 

[NowintersinAZ]

In ebay I did not select France only so it may have somewhere else. This search is just France so it says. If you have not ordered your kit from the US then one of these might be helpful. Just trying to help you get a kit as all. Ebay France

 

[Shellalewis]

So that is the problem with test strips, they are inaccurate. We call them guess strips. Just to confirm can you look at the package and tell us the ingredients. Just want to make sure they are Tri-Chlor.

Also you NEED to find Chlorine or Bleach (make sure the bleach is unscented or does not have additives). You can also check places that supply janitors or cleaning places. This is very important.

And finally keep looking for a test kit.

Here is an example of what people in the UK are doing. Maybe you can find some of those things listed.

Hi. The active ingredient listed is Symclosène…which a quick google check tells me is a tri-Chlor with stabiliser…so could a way high CYA reading cause cloudy water?

To be honest I haven’t paid much attention to the CYA because it always tested as 0! I understand it is ‘sunscreen for chlorine’ and that high levels cause chlorine to be less effective.

Today I have managed to get FC up to 5, but at the same test TC was 10. The pool definitely has a chlorine smell…so am I right in thinking the chlorine I’m adding is being ‘used’ to give a high TC reading? Or could this be a symptom of high CYA?

Either way…still no change on the cloudiness front!

 

[Shellalewis]

In ebay I did not select France only so it may have somewhere else. This search is just France so it says. If you have not ordered your kit from the US then one of these might be helpful. Just trying to help you get a kit as all. Ebay France

Thanks…it seems insane that if this kit is so useful, and widely recommended over there, it’s so hard to find here in Europe!!?!!

 

[mknauss]

If the pool water smells of chlorine, that is from CC. Your FC is way too low for your CYA.

If the pool is cloudy, you have algae. As your CYA is likely very high, it is best to drain and refill. Then put in just the CYA you need and then do not use stabilized chlorine. Or use stabilized chlorine, and drain 1/3 to 1/2 of the pool volume each month during swim season.

 

[Katodude]

Hi. The active ingredient listed is Symclosène…which a quick google check tells me is a tri-Chlor with stabiliser…so could a way high CYA reading cause cloudy water?

Yes, Exactly this. You FC is too low for the CYA that you have (which we actually dont know the value of).

With your new test kit we will be able to tell all your measurements and you will be able to maintain your pool. But plan on using liquid chlorine ie Bleach to do this. We will use the tabs a little at the beginning with Bleach to raise your FC and add CYA to the water since your drain will eliminate all the CYA.

So the drain and refill is important to remove the iron and CYA from your water.

 

[Shellalewis]

Hi there…so a little update:

I am still without the means for accurate testing. It seems the liquid reagents are ‘illegal’ in the EU?! So I am having to limp along with the strips I have.

I’ve started using plain bleach as recommended, which seems to work so much quicker than the dissolved tablets (and cheaper too so thanks for that!)…my TC and FC (strip) readings now match and there doesn’t seem to be the lingering chlorine smell anymore = a small bit of progress that I am totally taking!!
Also, the TC and FC are still matching overnight…they may both drop by about 0.5 but not from 5 to 0 as was happening previously. So can I take that as I’ve killed off a load of organics in the water?!

The pool remained blue but I was unable to see the bottom…one evening I put the underwater lights on and had a close look and could see it seems to be a dense mixture of tiny tiny white specks and tiny tiny bubbles floating around. I guess the white ‘powder’ is dead algae? But what about the tiny bubbles?

As I mentioned before, we have paying guests here for the summer who expect to use the pool, so I have been completely consumed with trying to clear the water.
This is where I brace myself for you disapproval…I used floc.

The first round caused a layer of fine, very easily disturbed, white powder to fall. It got hoovered to waste. But pool still cloudy.
I then went against web, forum and product recommendations and warnings regarding adding too much floc…I flocked again the following night. I figured the water was still so cloudy, there was a whole load of ‘stuff’ for another dose of floc to work on?!

So this morning I can finally see the ‘bond du fond’ for the first time in almost a month! A load of surprisingly brown/grey sludge is sitting at the bottom waiting to be hoovered out ( I would have guessed it would be more white stuff?!) …but I also have an odd layer of the tiny bubbles across the surface…any idea what/why? Has the floc separated the bubbles from the white speck and pushed them in desperate directions (obvs bubbles weren’t going to sink..lol!)

I don’t think this is the end of my journey yet…still have cleaning and balancing to do, as best I can with the strips!

(Pics of floc and bubble surface layer - by night!!)

 

[wireform]

Shella,
I would recommend you stop with the non recommended floc. At this point your sand filter is useless and you would need a deep cleaning of the sand or maybe even to change the sand as floc gums up the sand and wouldn't expect it to clear up the pool.

 

[Shellalewis]

Hi…but the floc doesn’t go through my sand? Doesn’t it all(at least the clumped up parts) get hoovered out to waste?

 

[Katodude]

I don’t know much about Flocc (other than not to use it). But I would continue to vacuum to waste as much as you can. That will help with a water exchange and remove as much floc as possible. Keep adding bleach and keep looking for a way to get liquid reagents.

 

[NowintersinAZ]

We know that your pool is 144,000 liters and that is about 38,000 gallons. We also know that getting a taylor test kit or regents is illegal where you live. I don't think anyone here will advise you to purchase or have delivered items that are illegal for you to get. With that said I believe we should help out as best we can with what we have.

Madame if you could give us your current readings? We can figure out the CC from the TC and FC you give. il serait très apprécié merci beaucoup.