Brand Spanking New Homeowner with Old Pool - Tested Pool with TF Pro for 1st Time - Help!

[platanitoz]

Hey all. New to this world. Looking for some guidance given what I believe to be skewed test results. Please be patient with me.

I just received my TF-Pro yesterday evening and started testing right away. I am a new homeowner that came with an older pool and questionable maintenance.

A bit of background:

• 20,000 Gallon Pool (not salt water)
• Marcite plaster
• Tampa area
• recently "maintained" by Pinch-A-Penny pool company (last chemical test and actions taken were 36 hrs before initial TF-Pro test; unsure if that also skewed results)
• Floating Chlorine dispenser with three 3" currently being used in pool as per pool company's recommendation.

Observations during tests:

• Comparator Block CL and pH Test - my resulting colors seemed WAY too dark after the 5 drops of the R-0600 to one and R-0014 to the other. The instructions said to fill both sides "to the thin black" and then add drops. Was I supposed to fill to the top line that's two lines above the "MAX" lettering? or a different level altogether? (see attached)
• Chlorine Drop Test - When adding the R-0871 solution one drop at a time, it took 61 drops. This seemed like WAY too many drops in comparison to the example calculation written on the instructions. I was hesitant whether that was an accurate read or if perhaps the droplet size were way too small as they were smaller than the other reagent bottles. Am I over analyzing? Could it really be this high after a the pool company serviced the pool 36 hrs prior to test?
• CYA Test - I felt hesitant on when I wasn't "able" to see the black dot at the bottom of the CYA View Tube. There was a section where it was very difficult to see the black dot but I could still barely make out the dot, so I kept going until it was 1,000% not visible. Unsure if that skewed the results.

Questions on Initial Results Recommendations:

• To lower my pH from 8.2 to 7.6, it default recommends to lower with 24 oz. of "pH Down / Dry Acid" which introduces sulfates (posing risks to plaster). Would the Baume and/or Muriatic Acid be preferable options given my pool construction?
• To increase my Calcium Hardness from 250 to 450, it default recommends 46 lbs of Calcium Chloride. Seems like a lot. But again, im very new to this and just want confirmation before I mess up my pool water or construction.
• To lower my CYA from 70 to 45, it just says to drain some water and refill. Should I be doing this and testing CYA daily until it gets to target result? Or should I test again in a week?

Thanks in advance to everyone and apologies for any lack of information on my first go.

 

[PoolStored]

Was I supposed to fill to the top line that's two lines above the "MAX" lettering? or a different level altogether? (see attached)

Fill to this line:

I was hesitant whether that was an accurate read or if perhaps the droplet size were way too small as they were smaller than the other reagent bottles. Am I over analyzing?

Do the test again. Wipe the tip with a wet paper towel. Shipping causes a static charge. Wiping eliminates the charge. Squeeze VERY slowly and let drops fall under their own weight. Also, evacuate a bit of air before you invert the reagent.

CYA Test - I felt hesitant on when I wasn't "able" to see the black dot at the bottom of the CYA View Tube. There was a section where it was very difficult to see the black dot but I could still barely make out the dot, so I kept going until it was 1,000% not visible. Unsure if that skewed the results.

Pour the solution to each line. Outdoors, sun at your back, hold the vial at your waist. GLANCE. If the dot is obscured, then take that number at that line and add 10. If not obscured, fill to the next line. That is your CYA. The glance is the trick...don't stare.

• To lower my pH from 8.2 to 7.6, it default recommends to lower with 24 oz. of "pH Down / Dry Acid" which introduces sulfates (posing risks to plaster). Would the Baume and/or Muriatic Acid be preferable options given my pool construction?

Use muriatic acid. Lower pH in .4 increments, test 30 minutes later.

• To increase my Calcium Hardness from 250 to 450, it default recommends 46 lbs of Calcium Chloride. Seems like a lot. But again, im very new to this and just want confirmation before I mess up my pool water or construction.

250 is just fine. I would test your fill water TA and CH.

• To lower my CYA from 70 to 45, it just says to drain some water and refill. Should I be doing this and testing CYA daily until it gets to target result? Or should I test again in a week?

Let's redo the test. 70 is fine, just maintain your FC for a CYA of 70 (if that is what it is...redo the test). Link-->FC/CYA Levels

 

[PoolStored]

• Floating Chlorine dispenser with three 3" currently being used in pool as per pool company's recommendation.

I would stop using pucks. They add CYA and your CYA is already high. Use liquid chlorine. Consider installing a Salt Water Chlorine Generator.

 

[JamesW]

The pH is below 8.0.

In any case, the FC will affect the pH reading, so do not add acid at this point.

Retest the pH after the FC is below 10 ppm.

 

[JamesW]

When adding the R-0871 solution one drop at a time, it took 61 drops.

Was the sample size 10 ml?

 

[JamesW]

 

[platanitoz]

Fill to this line:

I knew I shouldn't have overthought the "should I really fill it up over the supposed 'MAX' line?" Thanks.

Wipe the tip with a wet paper towel. Shipping causes a static charge. Wiping eliminates the charge. Squeeze VERY slowly and let drops fall under their own weight. Also, evacuate a bit of air before you invert the reagent.

Ah! Awesome insight. Will try these ~3 tips and report back.

Pour the solution to each line. Outdoors, sun at your back, hold the vial at your waist. GLANCE. If the dot is obscured, then take that number at that line and add 10. If not obscured, fill to the next line. That is your CYA. The glance is the trick...don't stare.

Genius. Outdoors and sun behind me. Obscured = number + 10.
The general indoor recommendation threw me off.

Use muriatic acid. Lower pH in .4 increments, test 30 minutes later.

Couple of questions:

1. Which Muriatic? the 14.5% or the 29% version? I assume 29% and not the other Baume options.
2. When you say lower in .4 increments... what does that mean? .4 ounces? When I choose the 29% option, it says to Add 39 oz (1 qt, 6 oz, 4 tsp) by volume to reach my target. (I will say however, there seems to be a bug/delay of recommendation when I keep switching between muriatic and other options) Apologies. I know I'm overlooking something obvious here.

250 is just fine. I would test your fill water TA and CH.

Apologies. It was 200, not 250. I mistyped in my post. Actual correct reading was in attached screenshot (200).
What should be my next steps? How do I test "fill water". Is that the water I fill the pool with from my garden hose?

Thanks so much @PoolStored for taking the time and providing immensely needed guidance!!!

 

[platanitoz]

Was the sample size 10 ml?

Yes. I made sure to fill it to 10mL without the SmartStir pill. Then added the pill and placed on the SmartStir to mix.

It may be due to what @PoolStored pointed out above around wiping the tip with a wet paper towel due to possible static charge from shipping...ans squeezing VERY slowly to let drops fall under their own weight after evacuating a bit of air before I invert the reagent.
Fingers crossed.

 

[PoolStored]

1. Which Muriatic? the 14.5% or the 29% version? I assume 29% and not the other Baume options.
2. When you say lower in .4 increments... what does that mean? .4 ounces? When I choose the 29% option, it says to Add 39 oz (1 qt, 6 oz, 4 tsp) by volume to reach my target. (I will say however, there seems to be a bug/delay of recommendation when I keep switching between muriatic and other options) Apologies. I know I'm overlooking something obvious here.

Use 31.45%. Ace and paint stores have it.
Calculate how much to add to lower pH by .4. Larger reductions are not super accurate in pool math.

Apologies. It was 200, not 250. I mistyped in my post. Actual correct reading was in attached screenshot (200).
What should be my next steps? How do I test "fill water". Is that the water I fill the pool with from my garden hose?

Ok, test the water that you fill with the hose. If it has high CH, no need to add more, CH will rise over time.

 

[JamesW]

This pH is maybe 7.6.

You go by hue and not intensity.

In any case, the pH test is not accurate with a FC over 10 ppm.

 

[JamesW]

You go by hue and not intensity.

You want a nice pinkish hue.

 

[platanitoz]

Pool Friends - (@PoolStored & @JamesW particularly)

I re-attempted to test my pool water with your tips and guidance, and I also took pool water to the pool company for them to test as well. Here are my and their results. (see attached)

• First, the Comparator Block.
  • As you can see, while I did get the pink hue to a comparable result under the pH column (although the pool company states it's actually at 8 pH), my water still comes in way too orange to even match anything under the Cl Br possible results.
  • (To note, this reading was 3.5 days after the last pool company maintenance where they put three 3" chlorine tabs into the floating dispenser)
• Next, my FC conundrum
  • As you can see from the pictures attached, I used 10mL without the Smart Stir pill inserted. I then added the pill, started the stir and added the one scoop of R-0870 powder (as shown) which turned the liquid to the shade of pink/red (as shown). Unsure if the clumped powder has any effect.
  • Next is where I believe the user or product error occurs. As such, I recorded the process to help determine what is the culprit via your feedback. I open the bottle, wipe the tip with a damp paper towel, squeeze the bottle upright to remove a good amount of air, turn it upside down and let go of the applied pressure. I then, slowly begin reapplying pressure to the bottle in the smallest increments possible which then result in the small but frequent drops shown in the video.
  • Please watch the video to let me know where I went wrong :
  • After two attempts, I come to about the same amount of droplets needed for the water to turn clear. 54. which means according to the calculations, a FC of 27ppm.
  • WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?
• Calcium Hardness
  
  • Retesting the pool water and then testing the fill water from the garden hose, they both came back with the same 200 PPM. (Although the pool company says 220 PPM)
  • After scratching my head for a while, I realized my wife changed a setting with our home's water softener system which I ASSUME it would then affect the test. Although I'm unsure, I turned off the softener system from reaching the garden hose, let the water spill out for about 2-3 minutes, and took a sample. Unfortunately, it was the same result.
  • So, back to Square One.
• CYA
  
  • I went outside with the sun on my back, put the cylinder at waist level in front of me and looked down when it was filled to 100. While somewhat obscured, I tried at the 90, 80, and 70 level.
  • Once I had it at 70, it became very obscure at first glance. I added 10 to the 70 to then record a 80 ppm, although the pool company stated it was 60 ppm.

My prioritized concerns are:

1. Why am I getting elevated FCs of 27ppm but my pool company has me at 5ppm?
2. Should I be doing something different when I do the Comparator Block test?
3. What other steps should I be taking to determine true Calcium levels?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[PoolStored]

Punt on the comparator block for FC Use it for pH only. Use the powder only for FC.

I agree your drop size is small. Use a coffee filter if you have one, get it very wet. Wipe the tip AFTER you turn the reagent over. See if that fixes the drop size. (You don't need to do a full test to see if the drop size changes). I also agree that when they come out fast like that the drop size is NOT right. The dark orange on the CL in the comparator indicates your chlorine is in fact high. I would stop chlorinating for a day or two, then retest.

I don't understand your issue with calcium. If you test 200, then you should be good! Maybe explain the issue another way.

Sounds good on CYA. When FC comes down, remember to follow this...Link--->FC/CYA Levels

 

[mknauss]

Don't squeeze the R0871 bottle at all. If the bottle is full, the drop should form and fall on its own.

 

[platanitoz]

Use a coffee filter if you have one, get it very wet.

Not a coffee drinker, so I may need to better understand the implied directions here.
Buy any standard filter? Wet it with re-agent until its saturated and creating a drip into the cylinder?

The dark orange on the CL in the comparator indicates your chlorine is in fact high. I would stop chlorinating for a day or two, then retest.

Here's my concern. Then is the TF test such a more accurate test than what's being used by my Pinch-A-Penny pool company that it can have such a delta between 5ppm and 27ppm within 24 hrs of testing? I know you can't actually answer that, but something seems amiss.

I don't understand your issue with calcium. If you test 200, then you should be good! Maybe explain the issue another way.

I think my issue is my lack of subject matter expertise in these tests and not knowing what out-of-range results can potentially be damaging to my pool. All I "know" is that the range is 250-650 and im resulting in 200 in both pool as well as fill water. If that never rises to 250 or more, will it create issues for me and/or the pool?

 

[platanitoz]

Don't squeeze the R0871 bottle at all. If the bottle is full, the drop should form and fall on its own.

Thanks for the advice. I did in fact wait over a minute the first couple of attempts with no droplet being formed or falling from the bottle.

 

[mknauss]

If that happens, turn it back upright and squeeze the air out. For some reason when new, the tips can be problematic. Not always, just some.

 

[PoolStored]

Not a coffee drinker, so I may need to better understand the implied directions here.
Buy any standard filter? Wet it with re-agent until its saturated and creating a drip into the cylinder?

Standard coffee filter. Not absolutely necessary, but they don't shed hairs like a paper towel.
No, wet it with water, like from your pool, or the tap. Just needs to be wet enough to not be sopping wet, but wet enough to remove the static charge.

it can have such a delta between 5ppm and 27ppm within 24 hrs of testing? I know you can't actually answer that, but something seems amiss.

I agree, something is not right. Your drops look small. With new 0871, I have seen it a dozen times this year that new reagents have a static charge from shipping. It even happened to me this spring. Once wipe and they returned to normal. Did you add chlorine between the 5 and 27?

I think my issue is my lack of subject matter expertise in these tests and not knowing what out-of-range results can potentially be damaging to my pool. All I "know" is that the range is 250-650 and im resulting in 200 in both pool as well as fill water. If that never rises to 250 or more, will it create issues for me and/or the pool?

With a CH of 200 in the pool, and 200 in the fill, depending on your fill water usage, CH will rise. In Tampa, I'm guessing that the summers bring rain, which will dilute CH, and evaporation in the winter will raise CH. A CH of 200 will be fine to protect the plaster. I would maintain 200 for now and watch what happens during the year. If you get dilution, add some calcium chloride to maintain 200/250.

 

[JamesW]

The OTO reading is way over 5 ppm.

 

[dereksanders]

Regardless of what the pool store results show, you have two self tests of FC that show it’s in excess of 5ppm. I’d venture to guess your FC is between 15-20.

Your pH readings are invalid with FC > 10.