You could also try to reach out to some masonry contractors. I dont know how rural you are but if you can find a pool supply house somewhat close to you and source the vermiculite a decent Mason and some helpers could knock that out in a day or two tops. It's not rocket science it's pretty simple to do actually. The other way to make it move is to throw money at it. If you can actually get in touch with the liner guy a sweetened offer to put a rush on it may help speed it up. I just finished a job that we did weekends on to finish due to rain and the homeowners bbq'd for us and even took orders for what the guys wanted to eat and drink for the day. End of 10hr days the wife handed a hundred each to my 3 guys working and said thank you. The guys actually wanted to go work there and went above and beyond for them
Bottom of inground pool collapsing
- Thread starter Esand323
- Start date
Here in Canada when you buy an older house like this it is up to you to inspect whatever you want to inspect before hand. Once you own it - it is your problem (unless the seller purposely hid some VERY material defect - but even then you'd have a battle on your hands). Is it different in the US?
- Jul 21, 2013
- 53,343
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The same in the US. Homes are sold as is and you have little recourse to the seller after closing. It is up to the buyer to do any inspections and the buyer can have recourse to the inspection companies if defects were not identified. Usually the inspection agreements have enough disclaimers that they can't be held liable for any things they miss.
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,166
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
In the US most home buyers have a home inspection. This runs anywhere from a couple hundred to around $1000. Many of the companies that do the inspections include a home warranty in their price. Home warranties are also available just as a policy. Often the seller will pay for the policy and include it as a selling point. The policies themselves are usually not that much. These policies typically cover everything in the home under an umbrella type policy paying out or repairing if no other warranty is valid for the loss. If the new owner does not get one of these policies then it is exactly as you describe. I had one when I bought my current house. I had 2 times I had to use it. Both times the warranty company sent their own person out to make the necessary repairs.
Almost everyone up here here in Canada also gets a home inspection as part of their conditions when making an offer on a house (offer is conditional upon satisfactory home inspection, etc), but the home inspectors have so many "cover your Rear" conditions in their contract and really aren't held to account for missing anything, etc. There is no warranty even implied. The only house purchase that comes with any warranty is new houses.
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,166
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
This is an actual insurance policy that is paid for by someone. It isn't just a liability thing for the inspector. Plenty of home inspectors do not include a home warranty. Many homes even include on the yard sale sign, "Includes Home Warranty!".
Quick update and a question.
We finally were able to get them out here to finish the repairs and install the liner after getting them on the phone and pushing pretty hard on them finishing the work. They came out today to repair the bottom. Tomorrow they are going to smooth out the concrete and clean up all of the debris from the pool. They patched all of the really bad spots that were completely collapsed. However, there are a lot of spots that I thought they would touch up but they did not. I know that they are just looking to do the bare minimum to get the liner installed (as I know that they do not want to do this job), but I'm concerned about the pool in the next couple of years if these other spots aren't touched up. I'm sure the contractor thinks it is fine, and unless we decide to fire them and hire someone else, we don't have a choice but to take their word.
I do have another contractor that can do the repairs. I'd imagine they would do a better job (based on recommendations and the fact that they would be prepared for this work instead of just a liner install). However, they wouldn't be out till September, or possibly next year. Based on the images below, should we get these other spots repaired? Or would it just be a cosmetic concern?
Thanks!
We finally were able to get them out here to finish the repairs and install the liner after getting them on the phone and pushing pretty hard on them finishing the work. They came out today to repair the bottom. Tomorrow they are going to smooth out the concrete and clean up all of the debris from the pool. They patched all of the really bad spots that were completely collapsed. However, there are a lot of spots that I thought they would touch up but they did not. I know that they are just looking to do the bare minimum to get the liner installed (as I know that they do not want to do this job), but I'm concerned about the pool in the next couple of years if these other spots aren't touched up. I'm sure the contractor thinks it is fine, and unless we decide to fire them and hire someone else, we don't have a choice but to take their word.
I do have another contractor that can do the repairs. I'd imagine they would do a better job (based on recommendations and the fact that they would be prepared for this work instead of just a liner install). However, they wouldn't be out till September, or possibly next year. Based on the images below, should we get these other spots repaired? Or would it just be a cosmetic concern?
Thanks!
sktn77a
Gold Supporter
That doesn't look like a satisfactory or acceptable repair to me. It's not just a cosmetic issue. There are still broken parts of the substrate and rough edges that will likely tear the liner eventually. If that's the best this guy can do I would cut your losses, hire a proper contractor, and have them install the liner in September with the rest of the work.
I agree that's horrible work my 7yo would have done nicer. That needs to be smoothed out better. Try handing the workers some cash and asking them nicely to do a better job of smoothing and feathering the cracks.
This is just my 2 cents. There is no way I would install a brand new liner over that mess.
If this was my pool, I’d spend the next couple of months getting contractors to look and bid on repairing that whole pool. I know it’s not what you want to hear or do, but it’s going to be a waste of time and money to band-aid that pool.
If this was my pool, I’d spend the next couple of months getting contractors to look and bid on repairing that whole pool. I know it’s not what you want to hear or do, but it’s going to be a waste of time and money to band-aid that pool.
That looks horrible. If it were my pool, I would get it done correctly...possibly re-coat the entire bottom of the pool and even everything out.
1. Your scope of work needs to state substrate replacement
2. Pool floor is not structural; it’s job is to decouple liner from dig
- we do this work daily; floors are not change orders, they are expensive segmented contracts.
2. Pool floor is not structural; it’s job is to decouple liner from dig
- we do this work daily; floors are not change orders, they are expensive segmented contracts.
Just a quick-ish update. They removed a lot of the debris and cleaned it up a bit. I asked them to touch up more of the bottom which they said they would. After they did more touch ups on the bottom, we went ahead and had them install the liner. We talked with the other company who would do the repairs in September and they didn't think any irreparable damage to the structure of the pool would be done even if the job was inadequate by our current contractor. One reason I decided to move on with the liner install was because the 2nd company wasn't sure they would be able to do it in September. They were estimating late fall or next year (they were going to give me a more accurate estimate in the coming weeks). I was also concerned about have the pool empty for the next 9 months if they couldn't get to it this year. I'm not sure what more damage could have been done, but figured it being left empty would only hurt. Lastly, we already paid half as our deposit, which they made very clear they would not refund. We thought about just walking away and losing our deposit, but ultimately decided that we would have our current contractor install the liner and get the most out of it as possible before we would need to get a new one.
They filled it with water and there were no issues with the bottom collapsing or anything like that. There are noticeable issues with the substrate in the deep end. You can see some of the areas that were not smoothed, and they didn't touch it up as much as I hoped. But after getting a second opinion, it doesn't seem like it will reduce the lifespan of the liner by much. Nothing seems sharp or anything like that.
Unfortunately, there were more issues with the installation
Here is an image of the liner after being installed.
It's sort of hard to tell in this image, but it appears that the liner is too small. The walls and floor make a 90 degree angle, but the liner is not skin tight and it curves a bit so it is not touching the area where the walls and floor meet. It does this even in the shallow end where no repairs were needed. Unfortunately, I wasn't there before water was added (I might not have noticed anyways). When I was in the pool, I noticed that it seemed spongy in those areas. That's when I went back and looked at this picture that the contractor took and noticed it wasn't tight in those areas. After searching around TFP, it seems like this is the case when the liner is too small.
In addition to all of that, the coping near the skimmer is really rusted. There are a few other spots where the coping is rusted (although not this bad), and majority of the coping isn't rusted. When our current contractor did our pool inspection for us when buying the house, he said this needed to be taken care of or it would be an expensive replacement (8-9k). He said it would only cost a couple hundred to sand and paint the coping. When we contracted him for the liner install, the coping work wasn't in the contract. I called him and mentioned that the coping wasn't written in the contract and he said it's fine and that he has that on his list to do. It was a red flag for me at the time, but as a first time home buyer (owned the house for less than a month), I didn't push for it to be in writing. I asked him about it for a second time in May and then again in June when he first came out to install the liner. Both times I got the same answer. By the end of it, we had obviously pieced together that he was saying whatever it was we wanted to hear all along. The second company we have involved (and who has been giving me good second opinions on everything) said this should definitely be done before the liner goes in, but that they can do it with the liner in if need be. So they are coming out in the next few weeks to help with that along with some other minor repairs.
Nevertheless, the liner around the skimmer looks bad. I'm not entirely sure why it was put in this way. Maybe there was a reason, or maybe he just didn't care? I'm thinking it's the latter. In the picture below, I can actually see parts of the old liner still in the track (above the top left of the skimmer faceplate and to the right of the liner lock). Replacing the weir door tomorrow by the way.
It's been a stressful time getting this done, but fortunately, we have 2 good options for contractors that will repair the substrate and other items. Both places gave really good estimates for repairing the substrate for when it comes to that again. My biggest hope is that we can get a few years out of the liner. If in a few years we need to replace it, we will know what to expect, as well as the companies to call and those not to call.
Sorry as this really wasn't a quick update at all, but if you are still with me, I appreciate the help TFP has given me!
They filled it with water and there were no issues with the bottom collapsing or anything like that. There are noticeable issues with the substrate in the deep end. You can see some of the areas that were not smoothed, and they didn't touch it up as much as I hoped. But after getting a second opinion, it doesn't seem like it will reduce the lifespan of the liner by much. Nothing seems sharp or anything like that.
Unfortunately, there were more issues with the installation
Here is an image of the liner after being installed.
It's sort of hard to tell in this image, but it appears that the liner is too small. The walls and floor make a 90 degree angle, but the liner is not skin tight and it curves a bit so it is not touching the area where the walls and floor meet. It does this even in the shallow end where no repairs were needed. Unfortunately, I wasn't there before water was added (I might not have noticed anyways). When I was in the pool, I noticed that it seemed spongy in those areas. That's when I went back and looked at this picture that the contractor took and noticed it wasn't tight in those areas. After searching around TFP, it seems like this is the case when the liner is too small.
In addition to all of that, the coping near the skimmer is really rusted. There are a few other spots where the coping is rusted (although not this bad), and majority of the coping isn't rusted. When our current contractor did our pool inspection for us when buying the house, he said this needed to be taken care of or it would be an expensive replacement (8-9k). He said it would only cost a couple hundred to sand and paint the coping. When we contracted him for the liner install, the coping work wasn't in the contract. I called him and mentioned that the coping wasn't written in the contract and he said it's fine and that he has that on his list to do. It was a red flag for me at the time, but as a first time home buyer (owned the house for less than a month), I didn't push for it to be in writing. I asked him about it for a second time in May and then again in June when he first came out to install the liner. Both times I got the same answer. By the end of it, we had obviously pieced together that he was saying whatever it was we wanted to hear all along. The second company we have involved (and who has been giving me good second opinions on everything) said this should definitely be done before the liner goes in, but that they can do it with the liner in if need be. So they are coming out in the next few weeks to help with that along with some other minor repairs.
Nevertheless, the liner around the skimmer looks bad. I'm not entirely sure why it was put in this way. Maybe there was a reason, or maybe he just didn't care? I'm thinking it's the latter. In the picture below, I can actually see parts of the old liner still in the track (above the top left of the skimmer faceplate and to the right of the liner lock). Replacing the weir door tomorrow by the way.
It's been a stressful time getting this done, but fortunately, we have 2 good options for contractors that will repair the substrate and other items. Both places gave really good estimates for repairing the substrate for when it comes to that again. My biggest hope is that we can get a few years out of the liner. If in a few years we need to replace it, we will know what to expect, as well as the companies to call and those not to call.
Sorry as this really wasn't a quick update at all, but if you are still with me, I appreciate the help TFP has given me!
Chalk this whole thing up as a learning experience. We’ve all been down those roads on various topics, and sometimes they are expensive and suck!!
Now you know what will need to be done down the road, budget for it, plan for it, and get it done correctly.
Now that the water is in, get to reading how to keep it clean, clear, and safe.
ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
Test Kits Compared
FC/CYA Levels
Now you know what will need to be done down the road, budget for it, plan for it, and get it done correctly.
Now that the water is in, get to reading how to keep it clean, clear, and safe.
ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
Test Kits Compared
FC/CYA Levels