Automation with external input

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riny

riny

Gold Supporter
Aug 20, 2020
194
NY, USA
Pool Size
10800
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Truclear / Ei
Well the time is ticking down towards opening so it's time to finalize plans for this summer. I mentioned this in another thread but I'm planning to add an FPH pool heater rather than gas or electric. My setup will be very simple:
  • New VSP (Hayward or Pentair)
  • New FPH heater
  • Jandy SWG (existing)
  • Pentair Intellibrite light (also existing)
That's it. The FPH will be on a somewhat long loop though and I don't want to pump the pool water that whole distance when it's not heating. So my automation requirements are:
  1. The SWG must be powered only when the pump is running at a certain speed (it needs 20 GPM minimum).
  2. The FPH has a 24VAC output. When that output is hot: the pump needs to kick up to high speed, and the actuator on the FPH loop needs to open.
  3. I'd like remote monitoring & control of the whole setup.
Best I can tell, #1 is easy using just about any automation system with a relay output. And without automation, #2 could be done with an analog input on the pump. But is there any way to combine the two?

The Hayward Omni automation takes an external input (NC or NO, which can be done with a 24VAC contactor) and supports interlocks, so you could require that the pump is on when the external input is triggered... but I don't think you can force a speed program this way. I could be wrong though. A call to Hayward support hasn't been returned.

The Pentair automation doesn't seem to support external inputs at all, and if I'm reading the manual correctly, the relay inputs on the SuperFlo are ignored if you hook it up to automation.

Surely there must be some way to make this work?
 
Equipment from 3 or 4 vendors never makes pool automation simple.

There are those who are running DIY pool automation systems on a Raspberry Pi. You will find threads about those builds. If you can hack your own automation then you can get it to work the way you describe above.
 
Yeah after many hours of research, I've come to the conclusion that pool automation is overpriced, inflexible, and just generally a headache. I'm more than likely going to go the DIY route with a Pentair pump and relay control.
 
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riny said:
Well the time is ticking down towards opening so it's time to finalize plans for this summer. I mentioned this in another thread but I'm planning to add an FPH pool heater rather than gas or electric. My setup will be very simple:
  • New VSP (Hayward or Pentair)
  • New FPH heater
  • Jandy SWG (existing)
  • Pentair Intellibrite light (also existing)
That's it. The FPH will be on a somewhat long loop though and I don't want to pump the pool water that whole distance when it's not heating. So my automation requirements are:
  1. The SWG must be powered only when the pump is running at a certain speed (it needs 20 GPM minimum).
  2. The FPH has a 24VAC output. When that output is hot: the pump needs to kick up to high speed, and the actuator on the FPH loop needs to open.
  3. I'd like remote monitoring & control of the whole setup.
Best I can tell, #1 is easy using just about any automation system with a relay output. And without automation, #2 could be done with an analog input on the pump. But is there any way to combine the two?

The Hayward Omni automation takes an external input (NC or NO, which can be done with a 24VAC contactor) and supports interlocks, so you could require that the pump is on when the external input is triggered... but I don't think you can force a speed program this way. I could be wrong though. A call to Hayward support hasn't been returned.

The Pentair automation doesn't seem to support external inputs at all, and if I'm reading the manual correctly, the relay inputs on the SuperFlo are ignored if you hook it up to automation.

Surely there must be some way to make this work?
Click to expand...
I'm so jealous! I keep wanting to add an FPH to my system as well. As ajw22 said you should definitely check out threads here on DIY automation. The fact that you know what a contactor is bodes well for your success. I'm not familiar with Hayward automation but I use the relay inputs in my Pentair Superflo VS on my DIY pool controller and it lets me select between 4 preprogrammed speeds just by closing the right relay. Pentair Superflo only has relay inputs unless it's the new Superflo VST which supports RS-485 inputs(which also is how the Intelliflo automates). The guys over at nodejs-poolcontroller have cracked the protocol for that long ago and you can do all sorts of cool things with a Raspberry Pi and a USB RS-485 adapter plugged into it. Including your #3 with remote monitoring and control.
 

Intelliflo Pump Needs Two Brains

My Pump needs two Brains for the FPH?? I have an Intellicenter as the brains of my system with all the benefits therein. My question is can the Pentair Intelliflo PUMP have two sources to turn the pump on and off as my heating system will require the pump to be activated IF the pump is...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
Thanks @JamesW, I just read through that whole thread. That's pretty clever, using relay-driven resistors to trick the automation into treating the FPH as a solar collector. I had all but given up and was planning to build my own automation using a BeagleBone but this is an interesting new development. :)

Paging @drglanton. Did you end up doing it that way, and did it work out well for you?

The only other wrench in the works is the SWG. Ideally I'd like my pump to have three speed programs:
  1. Low speed, running around the clock
  2. Medium speed, running up to 20+ GPM during the hours when salt generation is necessary
  3. High speed (+ actuator), for when the FPH wants to send heat to the pool
If #3 can be solved using the mock solar input, then the remaining question is how to power the SWG using relay control, ONLY when the pump is running at speed #2 or #3.

If this is possible, then it will come down to a question of time vs. money. The automation systems are turnkey but highly overpriced for what you get. I'm 100% confident in the DIY option but I expect it will take a large investment of time to get it right.
 

FPH - Hotspot Energy Install Begins!

So, it has been a long three two months of planning to get ready for our pool building. What is unique about this build is that I will be installing the Hotspot Energy FPH System as the primary mode of heading our 12,000 gallon fiberglass pool. It is my hope to provide some empirical insight...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

JamesW said:
Does the automation work like we expected it to?
Click to expand...

drglanton said:
Yes perfectly. Controls intellicenter as you said THANKS!!! I
Click to expand...
 
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JamesW said:
Just make sure that the lowest speed is enough to trigger the SWG and then set the SWG percentage to match continuous operation.
Click to expand...

I definitely could do that. The SWG requires 20 GPM but if I'm planning on running the pump 24/7, that might be more than necessary. I was thinking I could run the SWG only 6-8 hours per day and pump at 10 GPM otherwise. Is that an unnecessary optimization though? I'm not sure what the practical difference is in pump speed, between 10 GPM and 20 GPM.
 

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riny said:
Thanks @JamesW, I just read through that whole thread. That's pretty clever, using relay-driven resistors to trick the automation into treating the FPH as a solar collector. I had all but given up and was planning to build my own automation using a BeagleBone but this is an interesting new development. :)

Paging @drglanton. Did you end up doing it that way, and did it work out well for you?

The only other wrench in the works is the SWG. Ideally I'd like my pump to have three speed programs:
  1. Low speed, running around the clock
  2. Medium speed, running up to 20+ GPM during the hours when salt generation is necessary
  3. High speed (+ actuator), for when the FPH wants to send heat to the pool
If #3 can be solved using the mock solar input, then the remaining question is how to power the SWG using relay control, ONLY when the pump is running at speed #2 or #3.

If this is possible, then it will come down to a question of time vs. money. The automation systems are turnkey but highly overpriced for what you get. I'm 100% confident in the DIY option but I expect it will take a large investment of time to get it right.
Click to expand...
Works perfectly ! No issues at all.
 
Hey @JamesW... what would you think about using a pressure switch on the SWG? They're commonly used on heaters, and Hotspot recommends one for the FPH. They suggest a Tecmark 3010 (adjustable cutoff with 1/8" NPT threading). The Jandy SWG doesn't have its own pressure switch but I see no reason I couldn't put the same Tecmark in front of it, to ensure the SWG only gets power when there's sufficient flow.

Do they make a fitting to easily add a 1/8" NPT port to 1 1/2" sch 40? Like some kind of tee with a 1/8" port, or maybe a 1 1/2" plug with a 1/8" port drilled out of the center?
 
You will power the SWG from the filter pump relay in the automation box.

Even though the pump won't use the Filter pump relay, the SWG will use the relay. The relay will only close when the pump is on.

The relay should do what is necessary.

The cell uses a gas trap design, which detects when the cell is getting a buildup of gas.

This does the same thing as a flow switch.

Between the relay power and the gas trap sensor, it should be fine.
 
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