Actually, my guy (electrician) was a lot less than that, but he also likes to hang out here, so maybe he's cutting me a deal 
Automation system worth the added expense? Tight budget
- Thread starter Yetilagoon
- Start date
Thanks again for all the great information!
I have another question for anyone in the know. My pool and spa will be approximately 32x16 freeform with 2 24'' sheer decent waterfall features. My PB explained to me that i wil only need 1 VS PUMP for the entire pool. And that when in spa or cleaning mode the waterfalls will not be operable. Is that normal? He also said that adding a second pump would cost about 2k?
I have another question for anyone in the know. My pool and spa will be approximately 32x16 freeform with 2 24'' sheer decent waterfall features. My PB explained to me that i wil only need 1 VS PUMP for the entire pool. And that when in spa or cleaning mode the waterfalls will not be operable. Is that normal? He also said that adding a second pump would cost about 2k?
That is one option that is not uncommon. If you want to run the spa in the water heaters at the same time you will need another pump
although again that seems like a pretty large mark up since a waterfall pump is probably less than $500
although again that seems like a pretty large mark up since a waterfall pump is probably less than $500
Thanks Jblizzle. Sounds reasonable and I can live with 1 pump and that sounds fine, but why would he mark it up so high!
also what if later on i wanted to add solar heating wouldn't it be reasonable to have a 2nd pump? Or does solar require a dedicated pump?
thanks again!
also what if later on i wanted to add solar heating wouldn't it be reasonable to have a 2nd pump? Or does solar require a dedicated pump?
thanks again!
Would you say that with a simple 1 pump system to control everything justifies going with the expensive $3700 pentair automation price tag? Or because it a 1 pump system i could skip the automation? If that makes sense.
Y,
Here are to basic scenarios.. you tell me which one you want to do...
1. No automation... You want to use the Spa..
Go outside and move the Intake valve from the Pool position into the Spa position. Move the Return valve from the Pool position into the Spa position. Go to your pump and select the proper speed for your Spa. Go check the floating thermometer in your Spa and see what the temperature is.. Turn on your heater and set the wanted temperature. Go out every fifteen minutes and see if the Spa is ready to use. Get in the Spa and start to use it. You forgot to turn on the blower, so you get out of the Spa and turn on the blower. Get back into the Spa and find the water is just not as hot as you want.. Get out of the Spa and walk over to your heater and increase the temperature. Wife says she wants the blower turned off, so you get out of the Spa and turn off the blower. Wife says it sure would be nice to see our pool light show while we relax in the Spa... You get out of the Spa and walk over to the light control box and turn on the light show. Now you are done using the Spa, so all the above steps get to be repeated to shut everything off and go back to the pool mode.
2. With Automation. You want to use the Spa.
Go your PC, Tablet, or phone and select Spa... the Intake and Return valves rotate to the proper position to use the Spa. The pump automatically ramps up to the correct speed for the Spa, the heater comes on and starts heating the water to your desired temperature. You can see by looking at your device that the temperature is not hot enough yet, so you continue to watch your movie. After the temperature comes up you head out to the Spa. If you need to turn on the blower you just click an icon on your remote device, wife still wants the light show, so you click another icon and it is done. When you are done, you just click a couple of icons and everything returns to its normal status.
Which would rather do?
Thanks,
Jim R.
Here are to basic scenarios.. you tell me which one you want to do...
1. No automation... You want to use the Spa..
Go outside and move the Intake valve from the Pool position into the Spa position. Move the Return valve from the Pool position into the Spa position. Go to your pump and select the proper speed for your Spa. Go check the floating thermometer in your Spa and see what the temperature is.. Turn on your heater and set the wanted temperature. Go out every fifteen minutes and see if the Spa is ready to use. Get in the Spa and start to use it. You forgot to turn on the blower, so you get out of the Spa and turn on the blower. Get back into the Spa and find the water is just not as hot as you want.. Get out of the Spa and walk over to your heater and increase the temperature. Wife says she wants the blower turned off, so you get out of the Spa and turn off the blower. Wife says it sure would be nice to see our pool light show while we relax in the Spa... You get out of the Spa and walk over to the light control box and turn on the light show. Now you are done using the Spa, so all the above steps get to be repeated to shut everything off and go back to the pool mode.
2. With Automation. You want to use the Spa.
Go your PC, Tablet, or phone and select Spa... the Intake and Return valves rotate to the proper position to use the Spa. The pump automatically ramps up to the correct speed for the Spa, the heater comes on and starts heating the water to your desired temperature. You can see by looking at your device that the temperature is not hot enough yet, so you continue to watch your movie. After the temperature comes up you head out to the Spa. If you need to turn on the blower you just click an icon on your remote device, wife still wants the light show, so you click another icon and it is done. When you are done, you just click a couple of icons and everything returns to its normal status.
Which would rather do?
Thanks,
Jim R.
SOLD! LOL. That just explains it all! I totally get it now! Thanks Jim! Automation!!!!
Hey Jim, you forgot to mention this scenario:
-10 degrees out, did not realize overnight power outage...enter dome, disrobe, roll up solar cover, start doing physio in steamy dome with air temps in 30s-40s, water low 90s...realize the water from jets is not hot...must re-robe to boost heat/investigate. Hand sticks to dome zipper, which is frozen shut. Pour watercan of pool water on zipper to escape. Trudge thru snow in flip flops to pool house. Shovel fresh snow to access pool house door. Enter pool house to turn heater back on. Head back to dome, slip on ice from drips (see trek to pool house). Return to dome. Squeeze thru portion of zipper not frozen. Resume physio
Versus:
Wake up to -10 degrees. Remote controller indicates pool water is low 90s. Hmm. Roll over and go back to sleep.
Or: Wake up to -10 degrees. Enter dome with coffee and remote. Note cold water from returns. Press button on remote. Note water from return is hot
But seriously...if my system were not automated and monitored, there are several winter mornings that might have looked like that scenario...I'm especially fond of the waking-up-to-95-degree-pool-water part
-10 degrees out, did not realize overnight power outage...enter dome, disrobe, roll up solar cover, start doing physio in steamy dome with air temps in 30s-40s, water low 90s...realize the water from jets is not hot...must re-robe to boost heat/investigate. Hand sticks to dome zipper, which is frozen shut. Pour watercan of pool water on zipper to escape. Trudge thru snow in flip flops to pool house. Shovel fresh snow to access pool house door. Enter pool house to turn heater back on. Head back to dome, slip on ice from drips (see trek to pool house). Return to dome. Squeeze thru portion of zipper not frozen. Resume physio
Versus:
Wake up to -10 degrees. Remote controller indicates pool water is low 90s. Hmm. Roll over and go back to sleep.
Or: Wake up to -10 degrees. Enter dome with coffee and remote. Note cold water from returns. Press button on remote. Note water from return is hot
But seriously...if my system were not automated and monitored, there are several winter mornings that might have looked like that scenario...I'm especially fond of the waking-up-to-95-degree-pool-water part
SW,
I was trying to keep my scenario within the confines of normal... What you do in the middle of winter can't be considered normal...
I lived in Alaska for five years and even so, your scenario made me cold all over...
Thanks for the chuckle,
Jim R.
I was trying to keep my scenario within the confines of normal... What you do in the middle of winter can't be considered normal...
I lived in Alaska for five years and even so, your scenario made me cold all over...
Thanks for the chuckle,
Jim R.
Another vote to get automation with your build. Just way easier to do it upfront. I have a fairly complex system and knew I wanted to control everything from my iPhone or PC. Best decision I ever made. If you have a spa, LED lights, SWG and heater, I think it's a no brainer to get automation. Trust me, you won't regret it.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,854
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Yeti,
I'm also very sold on automation. My pool was installed with the absolute minimum cost simple Intermatic timer. It worked and I'd go that way if that's the only way due to budget constraints. I lived with it for a couple of months just to see if we really used the pool that much. We found we love the pool and use it almost every night. Soon the hike to the pool equipment to start everything and even worse the hike over after finishing with a relaxing 30 min in the spa got to a PITA! For the past couple of years we've enjoyed our iAqualink Jandy system and it's been worth every cent. I put in a new load center with way more capacity than I needed so I can expand easily to control future water features etc. I used their rs-12 and upgraded the load center to 60 amps but I did most of the work myself so cost was still less than $2000. I don't see much difference from the major brands other than the Intermatic that Swampwoman described offers a great cost with all features except wifi and it does have a hand remote capability. I went with Jandy because it is the brand of all my other equipment which makes certain features easy to implement. There are minor differences between brands that you should consider before picking your brand. But they are not significant enough to justify switching an existing pool.
I have solar with one pump and it works fine. One minor thing to remember is a roof mounted solar system will require increased pump head. For many installations this will require high speed on 2 speed pumps and variable speed pumps.
I hope this helps.
Chris
I'm also very sold on automation. My pool was installed with the absolute minimum cost simple Intermatic timer. It worked and I'd go that way if that's the only way due to budget constraints. I lived with it for a couple of months just to see if we really used the pool that much. We found we love the pool and use it almost every night. Soon the hike to the pool equipment to start everything and even worse the hike over after finishing with a relaxing 30 min in the spa got to a PITA! For the past couple of years we've enjoyed our iAqualink Jandy system and it's been worth every cent. I put in a new load center with way more capacity than I needed so I can expand easily to control future water features etc. I used their rs-12 and upgraded the load center to 60 amps but I did most of the work myself so cost was still less than $2000. I don't see much difference from the major brands other than the Intermatic that Swampwoman described offers a great cost with all features except wifi and it does have a hand remote capability. I went with Jandy because it is the brand of all my other equipment which makes certain features easy to implement. There are minor differences between brands that you should consider before picking your brand. But they are not significant enough to justify switching an existing pool.
I have solar with one pump and it works fine. One minor thing to remember is a roof mounted solar system will require increased pump head. For many installations this will require high speed on 2 speed pumps and variable speed pumps.
I hope this helps.
Chris
Thanks everybody for the help! We decided to go with the full automation Pentair easytouch 8 with easylogic. They start in2 weeks. I will keep update my log when we break ground and keep the log going for the whole build.
Was going to chime in with my two cents, but it seems like you've already made a decision.
FWIW, good choice. I'm glad I paid the few extra bucks when I put my pool in. I toyed with the idea of adding a wireless remote after the pool was built, but didn't want to pay the extra $450. I often wish that I had just coughed up the money, because it would have made many things simpler over the years.
FWIW, good choice. I'm glad I paid the few extra bucks when I put my pool in. I toyed with the idea of adding a wireless remote after the pool was built, but didn't want to pay the extra $450. I often wish that I had just coughed up the money, because it would have made many things simpler over the years.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,854
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Peter,
Glad you mentioned that. I almost installed a wall control just inside the house with a local remote. When I inquired on here a lot of people chimed and proposed that with wifi you don't need the panel... the more I thought about it the better it sounded. We saved a LOT for the panel we didn't install and have absolutely never needed it. We have the app on both phones and control with both our laptops. iAqualink was a snap to install by myself and I'm sure all the major brands are the same.
Chris
A lot of good options today. When I built my pool, the only remote option for the Easytouch system was Pentair's wireless remote. Basically a glorified RF TV remote. Smartphones weren't a thing yet at the time.
These days, hooking these up to WiFi is almost a no-brainer. You'll be glad you spent the few extra bucks in no time.
Peter,
Do you now have ScreenLogic??? If not, it is less than $375 and an easy DIY install. I have said this before, but I'll say it again... Pentair should just give ScreenLogic away for free.. It would double the sales of their automation systems as it makes programing and use at least 10 x easier..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Im learning very quickly that these pool builders are very misleading. My PB quoted $3750 for the easytouch 8. I had no idea that the easy logic would not be included with that. I looked at my contract and it just said easy touch 8. I asked him about it and he said the easylogic was another separate charge. So frustrating how they try and squeeze you like that because when he first told me about it he said you can control everything from your phone or any device.
I did not know Pentair offered a retrofit kit. I'll have to look into it, but I don't if it's worth $300+ for me right now. Tempting, though. Thanks.
My pool build was completed last year. And, like you, we were squeezed by our pool builder. We originally wanted salt and were told horror stories of decks being damaged by salt and that the deck would not be warranted. He recommended the Nature 2 system. Said we would only need 2ppm FC using it. He never mentioned automation to us either. Unfortunately for us, all of this was before I found this site.
Fast forward to today. Within one month of the pool being opened, the Nature 2 system was removed from my pad. It was nothing more than a gimmick in my opinion. We then converted to the TFP method.
After spending the last year testing our FC/CC and manually adding bleach everyday, we grew tired of it. Using the TFP method, the results have been outstanding, but adding bleach every day gets old really fast. As mentioned in some of the posts above, running back and forth to the equipment pad to change up the features is more of a pain than you might realize until you start doing it. And if you are like me with a permanent knee injury, it becomes downright loathsome. In my case, it causes grass and dirt to get tracked into the pool as well.
Yesterday, I had another company come out and install the Easytouch 8 Pool and Spa as well as an IC60 SWG. We went with the ScreenLogic for controls and it is fantastic! Get it, the system usability is significantly increased with it. Schedules, lighting, features all controlled by the tap of a button on your phone. No more standing in the hot sun, wiping sweat from my eyes so I can see to adjust the controls. No more dodging land mines left by the dogs as I hobble to the pad. No more bending over with my bad knee reaching for the valves once my crippled butt finally makes it to the pad. Even worse, enduring the pain to get there and back to the pool only to realize I forgot something and having to hop back out of the pool and hobble back over to the pad resulted in my just not using the features we paid for. It was simply too much trouble and too painful for me.
Yes, it was a bit of a financial hit considering the cost of paying for and then removing what the PB installed on our pool. But, in the long run, it will pay for itself in reduced overall operational costs and aggravation for my wife and I. In my eyes, worth every penny and pretty much a requirement due to my knee issue. If I would have known and had it to do over again, we would have had it installed when the pool was built. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Good luck with the pool build and keep us updated. Lots of super smart and friendly folks here to help you out.
Fast forward to today. Within one month of the pool being opened, the Nature 2 system was removed from my pad. It was nothing more than a gimmick in my opinion. We then converted to the TFP method.
After spending the last year testing our FC/CC and manually adding bleach everyday, we grew tired of it. Using the TFP method, the results have been outstanding, but adding bleach every day gets old really fast. As mentioned in some of the posts above, running back and forth to the equipment pad to change up the features is more of a pain than you might realize until you start doing it. And if you are like me with a permanent knee injury, it becomes downright loathsome. In my case, it causes grass and dirt to get tracked into the pool as well.
Yesterday, I had another company come out and install the Easytouch 8 Pool and Spa as well as an IC60 SWG. We went with the ScreenLogic for controls and it is fantastic! Get it, the system usability is significantly increased with it. Schedules, lighting, features all controlled by the tap of a button on your phone. No more standing in the hot sun, wiping sweat from my eyes so I can see to adjust the controls. No more dodging land mines left by the dogs as I hobble to the pad. No more bending over with my bad knee reaching for the valves once my crippled butt finally makes it to the pad. Even worse, enduring the pain to get there and back to the pool only to realize I forgot something and having to hop back out of the pool and hobble back over to the pad resulted in my just not using the features we paid for. It was simply too much trouble and too painful for me.
Yes, it was a bit of a financial hit considering the cost of paying for and then removing what the PB installed on our pool. But, in the long run, it will pay for itself in reduced overall operational costs and aggravation for my wife and I. In my eyes, worth every penny and pretty much a requirement due to my knee issue. If I would have known and had it to do over again, we would have had it installed when the pool was built. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Good luck with the pool build and keep us updated. Lots of super smart and friendly folks here to help you out.