Automation, SWG decisions

[eco-help]

Eco,

This thread seems to be rambling among several topics, I'll stick to the salt issue. Here's what I'd do if I were you. I'm not sure how many tests you've done are actually done with the K-1766 test kit but you need several in a row with this kit. Different tests methods are available they have a fairly wide range of accuracy even when performed with good technique. When different people with different levels of technique are used you introduce even more error. This introduces potentially a large range of accuracy error. The reason we prefer the K-1766 performed by you is it's the most accurate, reliable result you can get. So I would test with the K-1766 and post the result. If your result is outside the recommended range you should adjust necessary. Then do the test again each week and report it here. In the meantime it would be helpful to see a photo of your pool that shows all the skimmers and openings along the pool at the water line and a photo of the pool equipment.

Chris

It is rambling, my fault too.. I think it might be an IT thing, my apologies too. The meters they use seem to be conductivity meters of some sort, they rinse them out before testing.. it is an analog meter so they can't just subjectively decide on a number and anyone who can read a dial can read it, regardless of experience.
I have tested salt one time which was when I first received the kit, which was after I turned off the SWG. I didn't think it was worth testing again because no other variables had changed. We did (last night) have a pretty good rain.
I posted photos in another thread of the equipment here Pump Failing
I can re-post those here as well if needed - with the additional ones for skimmers or to save server space I can just post the additional here. (which I will do anyway.. asap)

 

[dianedebuda]

I posted photos in another thread of the equipment, I can re-post those here with the additional ones for skimmers or link back + add skimmer photos here.

Can you just link to your other thread here? I'd like to see what else you've been into.

 

[eco-help]

Can you just link to your other thread here? I'd like to see what else you've been into.

Pump Failing is that link
There isn't much to show it's existing equipment

 

[eco-help]

It is rambling, my fault too.. I think it might be an IT thing, my apologies too. The meters they use seem to be conductivity meters of some sort, they rinse them out before testing.. it is an analog meter so they can't just subjectively decide on a number and anyone who can read a dial can read it, regardless of experience.
I have tested salt one time which was when I first received the kit, which was after I turned off the SWG. I didn't think it was worth testing again because no other variables had changed. We did (last night) have a pretty good rain.
I posted photos in another thread of the equipment here Pump Failing
I can re-post those here as well if needed - with the additional ones for skimmers or to save server space I can just post the additional here. (which I will do anyway.. asap)

In addition to the link I posted I have attached photos for the skimmers etc

 

[dianedebuda]

Pump Failing is that link There isn't much to show it's existing equipment

Hey, I remember reading about 1/2 of that thread when I was researching pumps. Now turns out there is a link later in there about controlling pump speed when heater is on that is somewhat relevant to my queries, so was worth the read.

 

[eco-help]

Hey, I remember reading about 1/2 of that thread when I was researching pumps. Now turns out there is a link later in there about controlling pump speed when heater is on that is somewhat relevant to my queries, so was worth the read.

Great! Yes lot's of excellent advice and info. Seemed to stray off-topic so with the new framing I figured new thread best.

 

[eco-help]

Context: Pentair automation system with panel that replaces existing sub-panel.
Question: Will the sprinkler (currently plugged into 110v outlet, tied to sub-panel) be able to be tied into the panel of the automation (PoA)? Either wired directly to a breaker (that doesn't have a relay) or can the breaker be wired to the 110v outlet
If there is such a thing as a Pentair Sprinkler system.....
I am thinking new wifi sprinkler like this Amazon.com : Rachio 8ZULW-C 3rd Generation: Smart, 8 Zone Sprinkler Controller, Works with Alexa : Industrial & Scientific that is either directly tied to the breaker or to 110v outlet.
I think the answer is yes, either works -- it can be either wired to the breaker or to a 110v outlet since the panel is dumb unless hooked up to relays/controls in the system.

 

[setsailsoon]

Context: Pentair automation system with panel that replaces existing sub-panel.
Question: Will the sprinkler (currently plugged into 110v outlet, tied to sub-panel) be able to be tied into the panel of the automation (PoA)? Either wired directly to a breaker (that doesn't have a relay) or can the breaker be wired to the 110v outlet
If there is such a thing as a Pentair Sprinkler system.....
I am thinking new wifi sprinkler like this Amazon.com : Rachio 8ZULW-C 3rd Generation: Smart, 8 Zone Sprinkler Controller, Works with Alexa : Industrial & Scientific that is either directly tied to the breaker or to 110v outlet.
I think the answer is yes, either works -- it can be either wired to the breaker or to a 110v outlet since the panel is dumb unless hooked up to relays/controls in the system.

Yes, that's exactly what I do. So long as you have enough spare breakers you can run anything non-pool on them. If you're tight on slots use a tandem breaker. The breaker for my Rachio and my well pump that supplies irrigation water are both in the Intellicenter power panel. I'm also planning to control an irrigation valve that I'll add as a circuit to the Intellicenter that will open and close my pool drain line from the app. When they fix the last bug in the app this will work great so I can schedule it. For now it will be on/off. Here in Florida I end up dumping a lot of water about 6 months per year.

Chris

 

[eco-help]

Yes, that's exactly what I do. So long as you have enough spare breakers you can run anything non-pool on them. If you're tight on slots use a tandem breaker. The breaker for my Rachio and my well pump that supplies irrigation water are both in the Intellicenter power panel. I'm also planning to control an irrigation valve that I'll add as a circuit to the Intellicenter that will open and close my pool drain line from the app. When they fix the last bug in the app this will work great so I can schedule it. For now it will be on/off. Here in Florida I end up dumping a lot of water about 6 months per year.

Chris

Perfect! I know it's off topic - but since you mentioned the same sprinkler system that I randomly googled- is that one "good"? Would you recommend it or would you buy something different if you were to do it again?

 

[setsailsoon]

When I bought mine it was clearly the best on the market for the features I was looking for. I have version 1 and I think they're on 3 or 4 now. But check around most major brands are providing similar capability not sure if mines still the best. I will say I've been using it for about 4 years and it works great. Very simple install. Get the outdoor box if you're installing outside as I did.

Chris

 

[eco-help]

Yes, that's exactly what I do. So long as you have enough spare breakers you can run anything non-pool on them. If you're tight on slots use a tandem breaker. The breaker for my Rachio and my well pump that supplies irrigation water are both in the Intellicenter power panel. I'm also planning to control an irrigation valve that I'll add as a circuit to the Intellicenter that will open and close my pool drain line from the app. When they fix the last bug in the app this will work great so I can schedule it. For now it will be on/off. Here in Florida I end up dumping a lot of water about 6 months per year.

Chris

Do you have some sort of pool level sensor so it opens the drain valve automatically or is it a “stand near pool and flip digital switch on phone” type thing?
Ever have the opposite issue of evaporation and having to add water? If so is it automated? Seems to be more my problem.

 

[setsailsoon]

Do you have some sort of pool level sensor so it opens the drain valve automatically or is it a “stand near pool and flip digital switch on phone” type thing?
Ever have the opposite issue of evaporation and having to add water? If so is it automated? Seems to be more my problem.

There are automatic fill products but the drain side is normally a gravity overflow located in the skimmer or on the pool wall at the water level. Problem with that option for me is the salt level is not real good for the lawn over the long term So I have a valve in a 1" pipe that runs to a storm water drain. I plan long term to go with a wireless level control but haven't gotten around to that yet... probably will be a simple web page controlled interface on my local network using the new ESP 32 chips.

Chris

 

[dianedebuda]

FWIW: I thought about an add-on auto fill, but don't want it running when I'm doing irrigation watering 'cause I'm on a well. Going to add an irrigation valve to do it and control from my irrigation timer panel.

 

[eco-help]

There are automatic fill products but the drain side is normally a gravity overflow located in the skimmer or on the pool wall at the water level. Problem with that option for me is the salt level is not real good for the lawn over the long term So I have a valve in a 1" pipe that runs to a storm water drain. I plan long term to go with a wireless level control but haven't gotten around to that yet... probably will be a simple web page controlled interface on my local network using the new ESP 32 chips.

Chris

Pretty sure the Baker Hydro skimmers do not have overflow and there isn't any opening on the side of pool that would do it. There is a "backwash" pipe (It was for the sand filter, but I replaced that for cartridge) at equipment end that empties.. into a lake... not the greatest for salt water pool, but presumably the amount of salt is minimal. I still don't like the idea and no clue where I would go to reach a storm drain (our septic is a tank, not city).
Regardless some automation would be nice.

 

[eco-help]

Here is first quote, I am asking for VS pump and why the quote for the base 5P without actuators only to add 2; not sure I need many as I don't adjust skimmers. Maybe it is the one with 2 already, I am clarifying.
Also I don't see GFCI's here; I believe I need atleast 2. 1 for pump, 1 for SWG.
If anyone has thoughts...

Item	Qty​	Unit Cost​	Total Cost​
INtellicenter I5P with IC40 cell	1.0​	$2,945.00​	$2,945.00​
actuator - valve actuator - actuator - valve actuator	2.0​	$195.00​	$390.00​
013004 Intellipro VSF pump	1.0​	$1,550.00​	$1,550.00​
Labor - Labor	1.0​	$950.00​	$950.00​
		Subtotal	$5,835.00​
		Tax	$0.00​
		Total	$5,835.00​

 

[Jimrahbe]

eco,

My pump GFCI was installed by the electrician, so not sure it would be on the list??? I would ask your pool builder about it to make sure you get one.

The SWCG does not need a GFCI as it only gets low voltage DC.

As a general rule the Pool and Spa unit come with two actuators.. The Pool only units do not.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[eco-help]

eco,

My pump GFCI was installed by the electrician, so not sure it would be on the list??? I would ask your pool builder about it to make sure you get one.

The SWCG does not need a GFCI as it only gets low voltage DC.

As a general rule the Pool and Spa unit come with two actuators.. The Pool only units do not.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks! Not a pool builder as this is equipment rip out/replace.. a pool contractor, says he does the electrical. Good to know on the SWG - that makes 100% sense, I think I was confusing with something else.
Seems the specific i5P bundle is without IntelliValves (actuators), the i5PS has (2) , according to this : https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...lliCenter Part Number List - Availability.pdf
but again not sure I need it since I only have a fountain (will have, it needs to be hooked up/fixed) and a backwash. (+2 skimmers but again I don't use them now I purchased a Warrior SE Robot).

 

[Jimrahbe]

eco,

I am confused... You absolutely must use your two skimmers, whether you have a robot or not...

Jim R.

 

[eco-help]

eco,

My pump GFCI was installed by the electrician, so not sure it would be on the list??? I would ask your pool builder about it to make sure you get one.

The SWCG does not need a GFCI as it only gets low voltage DC.

As a general rule the Pool and Spa unit come with two actuators.. The Pool only units do not.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I know what.. I meant now... duh... 1xGFCI for pump and 1xGFCI for Intellicenter...
Lot's of electronics in the Intellicenter so that would make sense.

 

[eco-help]

eco,

I am confused... You absolutely must use your two skimmers, whether you have a robot or not...

Jim R.

“I dont’t use them” meaning the valves to limit the flow.. when I plugged the old style vacuum in I had to adjust the valves to provide enough pressure to the vacuum.. since buying the Warrior SE I have not had to adjust them.
I am just trying to figure out how many Intellivalves I need.