Auto Fill During Freezes

[atxjmy512]

The weather reports seems to show a cold snap coming in the next week, with temps in the low 20s overnight for about a week. I live in a southern climate where this weather is not the norm and we don’t close our pool.

My freeze protect circuit will protect the plumbing and the equipment. But I’m not sure what to do about the Autofill. Water is not moving through that all the time. as I have a flooded system where the pool is higher than the equipment that could problematic if the line broke.

Had a couple of ideas about what I might do but interested in thoughts

1) shut off the auto fill water supply and open the Corky valve to it highest setting to relieve any pressure. This should lessen the risk of a break (I think).

2) plug the auto fill outlet in either the pool or the chamber, shut the water supply and drain the backflow preventer.

#1 would be easier and wouldn’t require me to get in a 65° pool but I’ll do whatever is necessary.

Thoughts?

 

[mas985]

Is the water in the fill bucket at risk of freezing? Generally it is a little more protected than exposed pipe. You could always put a mostly empty weighted bottle in the fill bucket to prevent damage should the water freeze. But at a minimum, I would turn off the supply and remove the float valve.

Also, in some cases the valve to turn off the autofill is exposed to the elements and is in risk of freezing. If that is the case, you may need to protect that valve and any above ground pipe.

 

[mfifield01]

During my pool build, I had the plumber put in a dump valve near the ground just past the RPZ valve. Yesterday, I shut off the water supply valve and drained the lower valve (gets water out of the RPZ and most of the lines). My only concern is just before the shut off valve, but it's only about an inch away from a limestone covering. I will probably tarp the pool equipment area, which will cover RPZ and valves. My thought is that the heat from the pumps should keep it warm. I might buy two drop lights and put one at the bottom on both sides of the tarp.

 

[Toxophilite]

As for the can and float, I would shut off water and just take the Korky out. It screws into the base. There might be a plastic thumb-tabbed wingnut to loosen, but the stem just bottoms into the can's threaded boss at base. Plug up the equalizer line that feeds from can to pool. Dip out water from can.

 

[mfifield01]

Is the water in the fill bucket at risk of freezing? Generally it is a little more protected than exposed pipe. You could always put a mostly empty weighted bottle in the fill bucket to prevent damage should the water freeze. But at a minimum, I would turn off the supply and remove the float valve.

Also, in some cases the valve to turn off the autofill is exposed to the elements and is in risk of freezing. If that is the case, you may need to protect that valve and any above ground pipe.

For the normal temps, I don't think the fill bucket would freeze. It's below ground and I doubt the water temp would get to freezing. My bucket is pretty small. I might be able to put one piece of a pool noodle in it.

 

[Dirk]

A $10 submersible aquarium pump would keep the water moving in the well. Alternately you could use it to pump water into it from the pool, though only at a rate that wouldn't overflow its gravity feed back to the pool, so you'd want one of the smaller, lower GPM models.

I can't say that's ever been tried, just brainstorming.

 

[almostakeeper]

The last few years I would just have everything running during a cold snap, no more. This morning I opened up all the valves to get the waterline down below the returns. Gonna take about 6 more inchs out to account for any rain, blow out the pipes and disassemble the pump/filter and SWG.

 

[mfifield01]

The last few years I would just have everything running during a cold snap, no more. This morning I opened up all the valves to get the waterline down below the returns. Gonna take about 6 more inchs out to account for any rain, blow out the pipes and disassemble the pump/filter and SWG.

Temporarily? Why don't you just want to run the pumps?

 

[mas985]

Temporarily? Why don't you just want to run the pumps?

Remember what happened last year in TX? Too many relied on running pumps to prevent freeze damage and then proceeded to lose power. When the weather gets really cold, IMHO you are far better off with draining the equipment.

 

[Dirk]

Remember what happened last year in TX? Too many relied on running pumps to prevent freeze damage and then proceeded to lose power. When the weather gets really cold, IMHO you are far better off with draining the equipment.

Yikes, thanks for that reminder. I have to remind my Texas pool-owning pal of this. Relying on the Texas grid is not a strategy.

 

[mfifield01]

Remember what happened last year in TX? Too many relied on running pumps to prevent freeze damage and then proceeded to lose power. When the weather gets really cold, IMHO you are far better off with draining the equipment.

That's a little different. That was something not seen in over 100 years. If the forecast showed something like that, then I get the point of draining. Nothing bad in the forecast right now, just a few nights around 30 (above freezing during the day).

I personally won't drain, but didn't lose power in that freeze (on a hospital grid). If I were to lose power, I would drain right away.

 

[Dirk]

I just emailed my buddy "do you have a plan if..."

I created a reminder last year to do this for myself, but I've yet to do it. I was supposed to develop an action plan for my pool, and print it out. A set of easy instructions on what to do to my pool and plumbing if I lose power for days during a freeze, and how to do it without power. Not something I want to try and figure out after the lights go out! Dang it, I better get to it. We just started to drop below 32° at night.

I did buy a small circulation pump a few months ago, but I have no way to power it yet. And I have no idea how to winterize my pool's plumbing (or what to use to do that or if I have any of it ready to go).

 

[atxjmy512]

Remember what happened last year in TX? Too many relied on running pumps to prevent freeze damage and then proceeded to lose power. When the weather gets really cold, IMHO you are far better off with draining the equipment.

We’re thankfully not facing that type of event this time, it’s just a few nights in a row of below freezing temps with days in the 40s - and importantly not snow or ice.

 

[atxjmy512]

Is the water in the fill bucket at risk of freezing? Generally it is a little more protected than exposed pipe. You could always put a mostly empty weighted bottle in the fill bucket to prevent damage should the water freeze. But at a minimum, I would turn off the supply and remove the float valve.

Also, in some cases the valve to turn off the autofill is exposed to the elements and is in risk of freezing. If that is the case, you may need to protect that valve and any above ground pipe.

I don’t think so. The current lowest temp forecasted is 27. That said - my skimmers and cans are above ground level. That is, that side of my pool is on A slope and the pb had to Build up the concrete above the slope to get a level surface. My biggest concern is the water in the line. There are portions of the line that are just barely below ground with a few inches of gravel on top.

If I were to just remove the Korky / float - this would give the water some place to expand into and prevent a break, right?

 

[mas985]

If I were to just remove the Korky / float - this would give the water some place to expand into and prevent a break, right?

Yes, technically there needs to be at least 10% air in the lines to prevent expansion damage. Most damage caused by freezing ice is at valves and restrictions where the ice has nowhere to go.

 

[atxjmy512]

Yes, technically there needs to be at least 10% air in the lines to prevent expansion damage. Most damage caused by freezing ice is at valves and restrictions where the ice has nowhere to go.

Got it. I'll snap a picture of my RPZ later today and may ask for some instruction on how to drain that. As of now, my plan is to wrap those in mylar thermal blankets. They do have insulating foam around them but beyond that they are exposed.

 

[atxjmy512]

I think I figured out what I can do. I’ll shut off the water supply, and drain the RPZ while keeping the Korky in place. This will allow me to get water and pressure out of the line and backflow preventer saving it from freeze damage. Keeping the Korky in place should prevent water from flowing back to the RPZ. However If necessary I can also put a 1.5 inch drain plug in my outlet (not sure what to call this - in referring to the outlet in the pool that the Korky ejects water from to maintain constant level) and then drain out the auto fill can.

 

[mfifield01]

I've done basically the same thing, but this is my first year as well. I think I'll put something over the plastic cover to insulate during really cold nights and just check the water. If it starts to freeze at all, I'll drain and add the plug on the pool. I can reach mine without getting into the pool.

Is this the needed plug?

https://www.amazon.com/ATIE-Threaded-Winterizing-SP1022C-Hayward/dp/B08HXM2VJ2/ref=pd_lpo_3?pd_rd_w=idg2h&content-id=amzn1.sym.116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_p=116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_r=8V6SQ9SDG29T8RM3EG8K&pd_rd_wg=qiQtE&pd_rd_r=c5594964-327b-48c4-8a39-ad0e73c1d3c1&pd_rd_i=B08HXM2VJ2&psc=1

 

[atxjmy512]

I've done basically the same thing, but this is my first year as well. I think I'll put something over the plastic cover to insulate during really cold nights and just check the water. If it starts to freeze at all, I'll drain and add the plug on the pool. I can reach mine without getting into the pool.

Is this the needed plug?

https://www.amazon.com/ATIE-Threaded-Winterizing-SP1022C-Hayward/dp/B08HXM2VJ2/ref=pd_lpo_3?pd_rd_w=idg2h&content-id=amzn1.sym.116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_p=116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_r=8V6SQ9SDG29T8RM3EG8K&pd_rd_wg=qiQtE&pd_rd_r=c5594964-327b-48c4-8a39-ad0e73c1d3c1&pd_rd_i=B08HXM2VJ2&psc=1

I was talking more about the opening in the auto fill can itself, but I ended up just using one of those. I remove the outflow fitting in the pool and put a 1.5" drain plug in its place. Now, i can open the RPZ and drain the line. Im also going to just ladle out the can itself. This is my first year as well... You're in the same area I am - Western / NW Travis. Weather is showing teens starting next week, so trying to prepare now when its not freezing.

 

[mfifield01]

I was talking more about the opening in the auto fill can itself, but I ended up just using one of those. I remove the outflow fitting in the pool and put a 1.5" drain plug in its place. Now, i can open the RPZ and drain the line. Im also going to just ladle out the can itself. This is my first year as well... You're in the same area I am - Western / NW Travis. Weather is showing teens starting next week, so trying to prepare now when its not freezing.

If your can is similar to mine, you can just pull the PVC drain pipe out. It will drain mostly to the bottom. When I think about it more, the water from the pool could help protect the Korky from the freeze. It would depend on if it gets cycled from the pool often enough. I've thought about blowing the line from below the RPZ to the Korky, but not sure it's needed.