Aquacal Heat/Cool Pump (SQ166R) Stymied 3 Electricians...TFP to the rescue?

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jrh590

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May 3, 2021
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12500
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Hi! I'm hoping you all can help. Below is what is happening from the electrician's notes. We narrowed it down to the heat cool unit. All tight connections everywhere.
"According to his home monitoring system, lights in the main house and garage (a main panel and subpanel) were flickering along with a buzz sound. We identified it was correlating with pool chiller kicking on. Found when pool chiller/heater was engaging voltage was dropping from 236 volts to 211 phase to phase and 118 volts to 105 volts from ground to each phase. Customer needs to contact pool company to inspect issue with pool equipment."
Obviously something is wrong with the unit. I had a blown capacitor last year, and it was replaced. What is wild and completely stumping 3 electricians is that this cooler is on a subpanel off of the ADU's subpanel, which is a subpanel off of the main house's panel. All capacities are not even close to being maxed out, but somehow this cooler is on the 3rd panel at the end of the line, but affecting voltage drops all the way back to the main house.

Any idea on A) what could be broke in the cooler to be doing this? B) electrically how it makes sense for the voltage to be dropping and also affecting everything "upstream" to the main house?

Im going to call aquacal, but given its July, there is no telling on how long the wait will be to get it checked out for a warranty. And fwiw, it does this on heat or cool mode. I am not sure if its even cooling the water any now, but its so hot outside (90s), i'm not sure it would be cooling it anyways.

THANK YOU
 
Are you saying that the voltage at the main panel input lugs is dropping the same amount?

Measure the amperage draw at startup.

Is the unit running normally?

What is the amperage during operation for heating and for cooling?

Can you show the heat pump compartment where the contactor is?
 
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It is disappointing that the electrical did not measure start-up amperage with a clamp-on ammeter.

Has a good HVAC tech who works on AC systems look at it. Checking compressor startup amperage is one of the first things they do.
 
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JamesW said:
Are you saying that the voltage at the main panel input lugs is dropping the same amount?

Measure the amperage draw at startup.

Is the unit running normally?

What is the amperage during operation for heating and for cooling?

Can you show the heat pump compartment where the contactor is?
Click to expand...
I will follow up with electrician to see if he checked the amp draw. If not, ill borrow a clamp and test myself.
You asked "Are you saying that the voltage at the main panel input lugs is dropping the same amount?"...if I understand this correctly, then my answer is yes. I have a voltage monitor plugged in my main house (main breaker) and it graphs the drops exactly when the cooler does whatever it does to cause the drops. Reminder, the pool cooler is on the 2nd subpanel down the line, but the voltage drops hit every panel on the way back to the main...the garage adu and the main house. And it isnt just the voltage monitor in the main house that shows, the lights actually dim and buzz for a second every few minutes in the main house and thats what got our attention last week that something was screwy. The electricians cant figure out why no matter what is wrong with the cooler that it affects all the way back to the main house.
I will unscrew the cooler casing and try and find what the heat pump and contactor looks like and is located.
As you can see, im an ignorant novice trying to learn on the fly to find a solution and be more informed for the future.
Edit to include "is it running normally?"....I believe so. It starts up fine and the fan runs and enters cooling mode. That being said, Im not positive its actually cooling it. It seems like it isnt even keeping the water at the same temp, much less cooling it when I keep it running. I get that during the day in mid 90s it might now, but at night, im surprised it isnt maintaining or dropping. Also, last year it used to always have tons of condensation when running in cooler mode. Not a drop now??
 
jrh590 said:
I have a voltage monitor plugged in my main house (main breaker) and it graphs the drops exactly when the cooler does whatever it does to cause the drops.
Click to expand...
What monitor do you have?

Does it also show power draw?

What is the breaker size going to the heater?

If the amperage was high enough to cause that much voltage drop, then the breaker would probably trip.

Does the main house voltage stay down at 211 volts the entire time the heat pump is on?

If yes, I would contact the power company as the main lines are probably damaged.

full
 
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What monitor do you have? TING monitor plugged into outlet.

Does it also show power draw? No

What is the breaker size going to the heater? 60.

If the amperage was high enough to cause that much voltage drop, then the breaker would probably trip.

Does the main house voltage stay down at 211 volts the entire time the heat pump is on? No. Both the heat pump and main house voltage alternate between 220 and 211. It will go anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes before the heat pump drops voltage and then bounces back. Whenever the heat pump drops, the main house voltage matches it, and then bounces back with the cooler.

If yes, I would contact the power company as the main lines are probably damaged. The power company came out and confirmed the main line is perfect. The electrician didn't believe him, but confirmed the same thing when he checked and load tested the main line coming in. He also confirmed the main panel and two subpanels but look "perfect".
I'll be able to tell you the amp drawer in an hour or so once get a clamp meter. I *think* last Thursday when the electrician first looked at things, it was around 15 amps. Not sure but will confirm.

So discouraged that obviously something is wrong with the heat pump, but nothing makes sense to anyone. Thanks for your help and thoughts so far!
 
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The electrician didn't believe him, but confirmed the same thing when he checked and load tested the main line coming in.

Both the heat pump and main house voltage alternate between 220 and 211.

Found when pool chiller/heater was engaging voltage was dropping from 236 volts to 211 phase to phase and 118 volts to 105 volts from ground to each phase.
Click to expand...
Can you describe the load test?

How much load was applied?

What was used to apply the load?

Does the main voltage drop from 236 to 211 during startup and then to 220 during operation?

Is the heat pump cycling on and off during this time?

Is the heat pump showing any errors?
 
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Can you describe the load test? Turned on a lot of items in the main house such as two HVACs, Dryer, Microwave, lights...also had the garage HVAC turned on (1st subpanel off the main)....and then had pool heat pump running on the 2nd sub panel the whole time.

How much load was applied? I do not know besides what I told you above was described to me as a heavy load test and everything looked excellent. He also opened up the meter on the side of the house and ensure everything (whatever that means) looked good.

What was used to apply the load? See above for all I can describe for the load test

Does the main voltage drop from 236 to 211 during startup and then to 220 during operation? It doesnt drop at startup. When I turned the cooling on, the fan starts, but the compressor has a 3 minute delay. It is once the delay ends and cooling mode turns on it happens.

Is the heat pump cycling on and off during this time? It stays running since the desired water temp is lower than the actual temp of 93 degrees.

Is the heat pump showing any errors? No. It looks perfect. Again I am not sure its cooling the water though. It sounds silly, but the pool is so warm now that I cant tell if the water coming through the pump is chilled or just not warm like the rest of the pool.

If it is plugged into an outlet, how does it measure the 240 voltage? Sorry I got this mixed up. The monitor shows baseline of 122ish but drops to around 112 when the cooler causes the voltage drop. The 236 volts to 211 was measured on the actual breaker the pump is on. The 122 to 112 is the TING plugged in on the main panel. Graph summaries show the voltage dropping completely in line with when the pump was running...as well as the eye ball test with lights dimming (and buzzing) when the pump is running.
 
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jrh590 said:
So discouraged that obviously something is wrong with the heat pump, but nothing makes sense to anyone.
Click to expand...
I don't think that we can conclude that the problem is with the heat pump.

I suspect that your main power supply might have a problem.

If the main house voltage is experiencing that much voltage drop, it is either a huge amp draw or some sort of defect on the incoming power side, which might be bad wiring, bad connections or maybe a bad transformer.
 
Turned on a lot of items in the main house such as two HVACs, Dryer, Microwave, lights...also had the garage HVAC turned on (1st subpanel off the main)....and then had pool heat pump running on the 2nd sub panel the whole time.

How much load was applied? I do not know besides what I told you above was described to me as a heavy load test and everything looked excellent. He also opened up the meter on the side of the house and ensure everything (whatever that means) looked good.
Click to expand...
So, the voltage looked good while the pool heat pump was on during the load test?
 
JamesW said:
So, the voltage looked good while the pool heat pump was on during the load test?
Click to expand...
The heat pump was on during the time he was testing the load. I cannot guarantee how long he looked at the load test and if the pump "acted up" and caused the dropped voltage while they were inspecting the main power supply. I'll have a clamp meter shortly and will see what the pump draws at start up and while running. Based on the answer I jsut gave, do you think we need to retest something at the main power supply outside or main panel?
 
Note that these are not tests to be done by anyone who is not completely experienced with electricity.

I would measure the voltage at the main panel where the two main lines come in and then see how much voltage drop there is when the heat pump compressor comes on.

You should also check the voltage drop at the first subpanel and at the second subpanel or breaker.

Check the amperage as the compressor comes on during startup and during operation.

Note that these are not tests to be done by anyone who is not completely experienced with electricity.
 
The air should be warmer during cooling mode because it should be removing the heat from the water and putting it into the air.

The air should be cooler during heating because it should be removing heat from the air and putting it into the water.

The current should be about 28.7 amps during normal operation and the voltage drop at the heat pump should be less than 5% maximum and the voltage drop at the main incoming lines should be very low (maybe 1 or 2 volts).

The voltage drop at the subpanel should be less than 3%.
 
welp...cooler draws about 5 amps when turns on but then after the 3 min compressor delay, it tries over 120 when compressor kicks in. the air also isnt hot, which I believe (tell me if wrong) confirms the compressor isnt working. I think what my neighbor said was something like the hardstart keeps trying to kick on the compressor but it doesnt, so it resets over and over trying. This same thing happened with the compressor last year drawing 100+ amps and it had to get replaced. last year it tripped the breaker ever time right away. this time when it tries to draw over 120 amps...it does NOT trip the breaker at all. Why?? My neighbor thinks the wire going from the breaker to the pump isnt big enough to handle the power? something has to be causing two bad compressors in 1.5 years unless its just bad luck...which I dont believe. Does all of this make sense to you or do you have other questions to clarify? Last time I had to wait for 2 months for a compressor under warranty! :/
 

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