App does not work for spa?

ChunkyGuacamole

Active member
Jun 26, 2022
36
Alafaya, FL
Pool Size
12000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Am I missing something here? The app seems to only support pools, all of the suggested values are higher than what is recommended for spas. Is there any way to change this?
 
"Leve
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Levels should be the same regardless, but that is up to you.
If levels should be the same, then why is my spa manufacturer recommending different levels?

For my HotSpring "FreshWater Salt System" they make the following recommendations. So this is what I'd like to track with the app, but there seems to be no way to manually adjust these ranges.
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Manufacturers, pool chemical companies, etc all have typically unrealistic levels stated.

TFPC has a set based on science and reality.

Turn off the alerts.
 
Manufacturers, pool chemical companies, etc all have typically unrealistic levels stated.

TFPC has a set based on science and reality.

Turn off the alerts.
It seems that the parameter that is the most off is the hardness one.

I am interested in the science and reality, that's why I'm here. For pools the ranges make sense. And water that is too soft and aggressive is problematic, and that also makes sense. But the research I am finding for hot tubs seems to be mixed, and more specifically I am finding multiple recommendations to keep it lower, for example here that states:

Why is calcium hardness a concern for hot tubs?

The accumulation of scale caused by high levels of calcium hardness can be detrimental to hot tub components like the jet pumps and heater, as well as to the electrodes on the FreshWater Salt System cartridge. Ensure that your calcium hardness levels are with the 25- 75 ppm range, with an optimum target level of 50 ppm.

So I am definitely interested to understand why there are these different recommendations, and if there is any real science or merit to them specifically for hot tubs.
 
The TFP recommended ranges for an acrylic tub is 50+ for CH. You need a little CH in the water for foaming.
 
Turn off the alerts.

Levels should be the same regardless, but that is up to you.

I don’t find this entirely true.
In the Hot tub forum it has a lengthy sticky about spas and the target values are indeed different CH in the text. It states if you are over 100 or 150 ppm, you are good to go and no need to increase. This differs from a plaster pool, for example.

It would good if the app could be aligned with the latest TFP recommendations for the type of material used in the construction, etc.

… or the lengthy sticky should be updated to reflect otherwise.
 

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It is. You select the pool type in your setup.

For my hot tub I selected fiberglass and it still recommends 350ppm but in this sticky, How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)? it states

If your CH is much below 100 ppm, you should add calcium to bring it up to 130-150 range. If your CH is over 100, you can leave it alone and just make a note of what it is. The CH level will be used to determine your TA/pH levels.

Hence the confusion and appeared difference in recommendations between app and a sticky.
 
I don’t find this entirely true.
In the Hot tub forum it has a lengthy sticky about spas and the target values are indeed different CH in the text. It states if you are over 100 or 150 ppm, you are good to go and no need to increase. This differs from a plaster pool, for example.

It would good if the app could be aligned with the latest TFP recommendations for the type of material used in the construction, etc.

… or the lengthy sticky should be updated to reflect otherwise.
Do note that the sticky was written in 2008, and some things have been updated since. The sticky was left though as there wasn't a suitable all-in-one replacement yet. It's difficult to get a bunch of volunteers to update everything, and spas are not the main traffic to this site. For example, I was asked to assist in writing/updating some articles, but due to a divorce, moving, and loosing my hot tub I had less motivation, and more importantly, less time to help volunteer to update things. We do constantly update things, and I suspect the sticky will at some point be removed. It was actually removed at one point since I've been a member, but due to amount of useful information and complaints about it being removed it was restored. Once we can get all the useful information moved into more usable articles, I suspect it'll be removed again.

For my hot tub I selected fiberglass and it still recommends 350ppm but in this sticky, How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)? it states



Hence the confusion and appeared difference in recommendations between app and a sticky.
To expand upon what @mknauss stated, all modern spas are acrylic, which pool chemistry wise, can be treated the same as vinyl, so in the app, you should select vinyl. Note that changing pool types doesn't change recommended values for anything except CH. Since low CH won't damage vinyl or acrylic, unless you get scaling (which I can't imagine happening in a standalone spa), no CH is needed to avoid damage to the shell, though as mentioned something like 100 ppm is recommended to help with foaming. If you don't have foaming issues, you can probably just ignore CH completely. I did not test for it in my hot tub, but only in my pool occasionally to track it.

The main concern with CH and plaster, is that CH is a large component of CSI, and a CSI that's too negative will eat away at the plaster over time. This is why concrete driveways get rough over time. Look for downspouts that drain onto concrete, the concrete will be eaten away where the rain flows across the concrete more than the rest of the concrete (at least if you live somewhere with rain). Rainwater is very soft, as it's essentially distilled water with no CH, so it has a very negative CSI. I believe this is also why rivers carve canyons into solid rock. Water can't physically carve stone, but it can dissolve it.

For fiberglass, CH has the same recommended values as plaster because a few (mostly old I think) gel coatings uses on the fiberglass contained calcium and so could be damaged from low CSI like plaster. But again, for vinyl and acrylic, negative CSI is of no concern, so CH is of no concern, except where it may lead to undesirable foaming.

I agree the app should be updated to add acrylic or change the vinyl option to vinyl/acrylic.
 
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