Any risk in running pump in 10 degree weather without a heater?

[GDN]

I don't have any pool noodles, we haven't even stepped foot in our brand new pool yet (just the Spa, twice in the last couple weeks).

What I DO have that perhaps might work, is a lot of 2.5 inch thick Eggcrate style foam, for a different, recent project inside my house. I thought perhaps that could work? Thoughts?

Here is the EXACT product I have a lot of: 2-1/2" Acoustic Eggcrate Foam - Charcoal - 72"x80"

I would think that is perfect. You just want something that will displace or take part of the surface, then as the water freezes what you've but in there will crush first and take the displacement from the moving ice.

 

[ajw22]

I don't have any pool noodles, we haven't even stepped foot in our brand new pool yet (just the Spa, twice in the last couple weeks).

What I DO have that perhaps might work, is a lot of 2.5 inch thick Eggcrate style foam, for a different, recent project inside my house. I thought perhaps that could work? Thoughts?

Here is the EXACT product I have a lot of: 2-1/2" Acoustic Eggcrate Foam - Charcoal - 72"x80"

Stuff the egg crate foam in your skimmer. It may help, cannot hurt.

 

[ajw22]

Anyhow, is there any good source or answer , in better detail, for what "open up all the valves" entails?

“Open up all the valves “ means do not let any water sit in a closed pipe. That is where when the water freezes ice can expand and burst the pipe. You have to know your plumbing to know if a valve is holding back water. If so, then open it.

This more applies to 2 way valves that are usually OPEN or CLOSED. It is more complicated with a 3 way valve like you are asking about. When the pool side is open, which is good, no water is being blocked on the spa outlet. So it is not a problem.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

All drain valves and the drain plug in the filter. Any place you can vent any pressure to the atmosphere. Water is odd and in the state transition to frozen/solid, it expands unlike just about any other material. So as it expands you don't want any resistance to it, because localized PSI can get very high very fast... if there is an open to the outside the water will freeze that way instead of pressurizing the pipes. Unfortunately sometimes at bends, etc. that doesn't work. I wish all of you guys well. In Tucson, I hope I never have to worry about it, but I have found it rather interesting to follow this winterization procedures because I am mostly clueless about it.

 

[JRB100]

We called it quits and cut the whole pool circuit, drained the pump and filter and put pool noodle pieces in the skimmers. Even at 3100 RPM we had a thick layer of slush on the pool. And tomorrow and Tuesday are the 'really' cold days. Not getting above freezing until Friday or Saturday...just seemed like a lost cause and didn't want to damage the equipment AND the pool. The equipment was doing great...the tarp and heating lamps working like a champ. We live on a greenbelt so no wind protection on one long side of the house...wasn't helping at all with below zero wind chills. So now we just pray we don't get skimmer or plaster damage, especially the tanning ledge. Worrying about this has taken all the fun out of this snow event. And now notices to lower our thermostats to 64 because of widespread low gas pressure, and high probability of power loss and subsequent water loss. Best wishes to all of you...hoping for no major damage....

I'm sorry I did not see your original post before this mess started. Now that we are coming out of this weather I can tell you what worked for me (with an in-floor cleaning system) just as a reference.

My equipment is next to my fence on the south side of the house (away from the house). Equipment (heater, pump, actuator, filter, all exposed pvc) is covered with a heavy tarp. (No heat source other than the residual heat from the pump.) Tarp weighted down.

Pump set 24/7 at 2450 rpm.

All valves partially open (at a minimum). Including from venturi skimmers to pump, to heater and through heater bypass, all returns open. Most of the water flowing to the returns goes to the pool and the spa return is slightly open to keep water moving through the jets.

No power outages during the week.

I had a think layer of ice on the pool that cold morning when it was -2 at DFW Airport. Some of the cleaning heads kept the water from freezing in spots.

I have not had an issue with this method in the past (although I was on edge knowing a power outage would quickly escalate things at the temperatures we faced).

These photos are Monday morning a day before the -2 degrees morning.

 

[GDN]

Hoping to see more follow up stories with what each did to protect the pool and equipment or what you did that unfortunately didn't protect and how much or what kind of damage you had, it will help us understand what kind of temps we can survive by just keeping the water moving, etc.

I feel a little guilty posting my version of this story, because not only did I never lose power (must be in part of a grid with a medical condition or something, we do have 2 schools right on either side of us, so maybe they are protected) but we got it heated just in case.

I was going with the just keep the pump running and protect until about 1:00 on Sunday afternoon I think it was (these days ran together fast). When so much news started happening about blackouts we decided to see if we could heat it.

We have Pentair Easy Touch automation, so I turned freeze protection OFF, and moved the pool/spa valves half way so that it would circulate both at all times. We covered most of the pipes with a blanket and heavy drop cloth, started the heater and the next 48 hours we got it up to 77. The heater would stop every few hours, but eventually come back on. Once we got to that temp though on Tuesday we knew we'd be good and it could just drift back down over a few days, so we stopped the heating.

So here we are with one more bitter night left, pump is still running fine, outside temp is 28, dropping to estimated 13 tonight and the pool still sits at 53. Freezing again on Friday night and on Saturday we'll start to warm up. I figure the water temp will still be close to 40.

We have not had to add water, but will say we have likely lost at least 2 inches and will have to add some tomorrow, I've only got about an inch flowing into the skimmer, but didn't want to try and turn the faucet on with the temps dropping again tonight. I'll be comfortable doing that tomorrow and should get water in it before it drops below the skimmer. If not I'll just shut them off and pull from the drain, it'll be warm enough to do so tomorrow.

I truly hope for the best and those that weren't so lucky and froze at least got those plugs pulled and when thawed will run again nicely.

It also afforded a nice pic or two.

 

[AndyTN]

I was the OP and I drained everything. While I never expected to lose power and didn't, I'm so glad I just drained everything for peace of mind. Seeing all the Crud people in TX are dealing with, we are fortunate. My biggest issue is that the schools are closed all week and my kids are driving me insane while trying to work. First world problems. The pool is coming back alive and Spring will be here soon.

 

[GDN]

Ouch - on the flip side I have a friend from Plano just post these pictures on Facebook. They lost power about 24 hours in and didn't know to do anything to drain the equipment. Just bought the house this summer and had new equipment put in this fall. I didn't think about reaching out to them.

 

[jbird0215]

Although we didn’t have near the Arctic blast as our neighbors to the southwest, we are on Day 8 of sub-freezing temps with 2 more cold nights. We hit 9 degrees at the lowest so far and haven’t topped out above freezing yet. In preparation, I tarped the equipment, placed an incandescent bulb underneath, and had a 9 ft heating cable on the pipe from the pump to the filter and the heater. The pump has run continuously since last Thursday. I had just a tiny bit of ice form in the pool on the coldest day with heavy sleet but otherwise all clear. Water temps haven’t gone below 32, but it was pretty nerve wracking to watch the water temp fall by 6 degrees in a single day. It probably helps that I have 5 returns to keep the water moving, and I know the equipment pad strategy worked. I have a water bottle underneath and it has yet to freeze. I also have a fairly insulated pad next to the house with very large shrubbery bordering the other 3 sides. Through the experience, I know my pool better and its tolerance to the whims of Mother Nature. Losing power would have been an immediate abort mission by draining the equipment. I know folks have had it much worse than we did but thought I’d share my approach. I probably would have shut it down and pulled the plugs had we bottomed out at 0 or below.

 

[HeyEng]

Hoping to see more follow up stories with what each did to protect the pool and equipment or what you did that unfortunately didn't protect and how much or what kind of damage you had, it will help us understand what kind of temps we can survive by just keeping the water moving, etc.

I feel a little guilty posting my version of this story, because not only did I never lose power (must be in part of a grid with a medical condition or something, we do have 2 schools right on either side of us, so maybe they are protected) but we got it heated just in case.

I was going with the just keep the pump running and protect until about 1:00 on Sunday afternoon I think it was (these days ran together fast). When so much news started happening about blackouts we decided to see if we could heat it.

We have Pentair Easy Touch automation, so I turned freeze protection OFF, and moved the pool/spa valves half way so that it would circulate both at all times. We covered most of the pipes with a blanket and heavy drop cloth, started the heater and the next 48 hours we got it up to 77. The heater would stop every few hours, but eventually come back on. Once we got to that temp though on Tuesday we knew we'd be good and it could just drift back down over a few days, so we stopped the heating.

So here we are with one more bitter night left, pump is still running fine, outside temp is 28, dropping to estimated 13 tonight and the pool still sits at 53. Freezing again on Friday night and on Saturday we'll start to warm up. I figure the water temp will still be close to 40.

We have not had to add water, but will say we have likely lost at least 2 inches and will have to add some tomorrow, I've only got about an inch flowing into the skimmer, but didn't want to try and turn the faucet on with the temps dropping again tonight. I'll be comfortable doing that tomorrow and should get water in it before it drops below the skimmer. If not I'll just shut them off and pull from the drain, it'll be warm enough to do so tomorrow.

I truly hope for the best and those that weren't so lucky and froze at least got those plugs pulled and when thawed will run again nicely.

It also afforded a nice pic or two.

View attachment 176280

We also heated our pool to about 80 degrees. It started at about 35 degrees (I think) and ran it from noon Saturday until noon Sunday (Feb 13/14. ) You can see my attached calendar that shows the temperatures we have had (several below zero and we still haven't gotten above freezing) and the coldest the pool has gotten since then (this morning) is 36 degrees. In all honesty, I think this is the ONLY thing that kept me from having to drain. Several posters here kept their equipment running (but no heater) but yet still had freezing...so the "moving water won't freeze" is more "moving water takes longer to freeze." I am in no way saying this was the smart thing to do....if and when this happens again, I will be draining instead; it was really getting lucky. Not losing power really helped, too!

I also have two heat lamps and a chicken coop warmer in the pad area, but there were a few times when it got to the low 20s in there but the key was that the pool water never got below 32 degrees.

Oh and this map doesn't show an accurate amount of snow. The two storms left us with about 12-13" total over the last week.

*Our neighbors "mega pool" did finally freeze up a couple of days ago and the wife called us freaking out about what to do. I tried to help as best as I could, but most of the damage had already been done. Really, as cold as it was...I was surprised it didn't freeze faster. I think some of that was the simple fact that the pool is 40 or 50K gallons and 9.5 or 10 feet deep and I had told her to make sure some water was pulling from the main drain and not just the skimmer since the water at the bottom *should* have been warmer.

 

[PaigeMark]

Hoping to see more follow up stories with what each did to protect the pool and equipment or what you did that unfortunately didn't protect and how much or what kind of damage you had, it will help us understand what kind of temps we can survive by just keeping the water moving, etc.

We had brutal temps and windchill in Tulsa for days. We never lost power but pulled the plug and drained everything once the water temperature hit 32-33 and the booster pump that runs my jet seat packs in the spa started to freeze up. Now, I assume that one went first because it only pulls from the raised spa and that water temperature was probably much colder than the water at the main drain level of the pool. In hindsight, I may have been fine just draining that pump and letting the spa drain to the pool level but I didn’t want to take a chance at losing my main pump, waterfall pump and heater so in the dark, we fumbled through a frantic equipment pad drain. Once everything shut off, the entire pool iced over where before, the moving water was keeping large sections ice-free. I didn’t drain the spa to the pool level and I should have because we have all kinds of damage to at least the above ground portion of the suction line. Easy enough fix but still a pain and I’m not positive there isn’t underground damage yet. Pool noodles in the skimmers have done a great job of keeping ice at bay and there is still a lot of water in both skimmers. That gives me hope for underground plumbing. I covered my overflow/refill well on the pool deck with an old doormat and a large planter and there is no ice in that at the moment. Temps were 3 degrees here this morning and I think that’s the last of the single digits for us after today.

What worked: Keeping water flowing (except for the single loop spa line which ended up circulating 32 degree water for too long), pool noodles in skimmers, insulating the overflow/refill reservoir on the pool deck, tenting and heating the equipment pad (incandescent bulb, electric heat tape, blankets, tarp, and an old spray painting tent), aborting the mission and draining all equipment once the one pump started to struggle.

What didn’t: Deciding to try my heater after the water reached 32 (low temp lockout that I did not know how to override), running the booster pump circulating the coldest water in the spa (But not running it and draining that pump/line would mean draining the spa the way it is plumbed), waiting until dark to decide to drain (broke off one drain plug on the heater in our hurry and the frustration of being out there in the cold in the dark), not draining the raised spa, my husband slipping and falling on the icy pool deck at 2am...that’s the one that will push me to winterize in the fall this year.

Some good news? I received tons of great advice at TFP. It’s warming up, my equipment looks to be in good shape, I’ve learned a ton and will learn more as I fix some pipes, my husband didn’t break any bones.

AND...we survived an earthquake this morning. What’s next for 2021?

 

[HeyEng]

Earthquake, eh? Guess with all the NG usage they have had to get the fracking going!!! I was hoping to drop our earthquake insurance this year, but usually about a day after I think about it, there is a small one that changes my mind.

OK, back to the regularly scheduled program.

 

[GDN]

A question for the long term pool pros - what is the potential damage to plaster from freezing temps (or even the other extreme - heat) that is not covered by water?

I was able to manually control my automated valves to circulate water in both pool and spa at all times. However the timer on the pump did turn it off a couple of times (although I thought I had it overridden). When it would go off the water level in the hot tub would drain down some (I know I need to check my back flow valve). However if it had remained in these cold temps with no water covering the plaster/pebbletec, would there have been potential damage from that too?