Any risk in running pump in 10 degree weather without a heater?

[AndyTN]

People up north: "no big deal"

People down south: "its going to be how cold?!?!?"

 

[Andrew_D]

People up north: "no big deal"

People down south: "its going to be how cold?!?!?"

Pretty much, yup!

Calling for actual temperatures of -40ºC for tonight. Don't worry about that ºC part, at this temp, ºC = ºF, so -40 = -40.
Oh, and that wind chill.... yeah, suppose to be -54ºC.
I'll check back in after we thaw out....

Andrew

 

[Apsuhead]

i’m nearby in Clarksville TN and the forecast is cold! My new pool was just finished but they didn’t run the equipment yet, I’m waiting til spring to keep the pipes dry. I don’t have a cover and it is open for the winter. I assume that water is in the pipes from the main drains but the the returns and skimmer have been plugged the entire time. The skimmer has water that has seeped in from the pool, but I put some RV antifreeze in there and then left the half full bottle floating in there to absorb any freezing ice. Hopefully that will protect my skimmer.

 

[Andrew_D]

Hey I'm back!

Didn't get as cold as they called for. "Only" -37ºC with windchill of -50ºC!!

Calling for -39ºC and windchill of -54ºC for tonight though.

Andrew

 

[JJ_Tex]

Oh my. I know people complain about our heat in the summer, but our extreme weather can be easily cured by shorts, flip flops, a pool and a beer. I cannot even fathom temperatures that extreme.

 

[Andrew_D]

It's not bad. I'd rather add layers. I always joke that I start to melt around 20ºC (~70ºF)!!!

Also part of the reason why my house is ICF styrofoam/concrete all the way from the basement floor to the rafters. I run the furnace fan all the time for air movement and to keep any areas from getting stale, but the electric elements in the furnace cut in 2-3 times a day on most days. Yesterday and today, it is more like 5-6 times. Usually if I walk past an air vent, it is just room temp air moving around.

Andrew

 

[jseyfert3]

I was reading this thread, glanced over at my remote temp base station, saw -10.7 °F. Went oh, it is a little cold this morning, isn't it? According to the graph the temp got down to -14.6 °F a few hours ago, but the sensor is currently sitting directly on the outside of the house, so the actual temp may be somewhat colder.

The temp probe I left in the pool is reporting 15.8 °F.

 

[jseyfert3]

Coldest I've personally seen was -31 °F (actual, not wind chill), in Jan 2019 when we lived in Illinois just south of the Wisconsin border. @Andrew_D how cold did it get up there during the cold snap in Jan 2019?

 

[Andrew_D]

I had to go look it up!

Map is in ºF.

Looks like a pretty typical January until that last 4 days.

Andrew

 

[mjpohl]

Mid 70's here --

Just thinking about you all ----------

Marty was that really necessary!!! LOL 28 here

 

[HeyEng]

To ya'll with the negative temps... NOPE.

 

[AndyTN]

The forecast has improved since my original post but still cold enough to take precaution. I am going out of town this weekend when the coldest temps set in so I am just going to shut off the pump, drain all the equipment, and put a tarp over everything. I am not going to do a full "winter close" but close to it and it won't take too much time. Sand filter will be the first to drain and I have brought the water level down enough to dry out my skimmer to put the Gizzmo back in. I still have my winter tarp on while doing the AA treatment and solar cover sitting on top of the tarp since a little more insulation can't hurt.

We are still looking at one night with a low of 12 but highs most days still hitting the freezing mark. I was really worried about the original forecast lows of 10-12 and highs of 19-23 for a few days.

 

[Poolmama!]

So check my logic on this please. In the Dallas area people rely on freeze protection, including me. We have a 3 day stretch where it looks like we will dip down into the teens and get a few degrees above freezing each day. We were in the 70's earlier in the week and chances are we will be back there shortly, so I would really rather not spend superbowl sunday learning how to winterize for a 3-day stretch of weather.

I'm really only worried about a contingency plan in the absolute worst case we lose power in the middle of the night when it is in the teens. If that were to happen, this would be my course of action:
- Turn off the breakers
- Drain the filter via the bottom plug, leave the top pressure valve open as well
- Drain the pump via the bottom plug
- Tarp the equipment

Besides freezing my butt off in the middle of the night doing all of this, anyone see any glaring issues with this contingency plan?

Do we do anything with the skimmers? We have a heat pump...wondering if the water will drain out of it if we drain the filter and pumps as you describe?

 

[Poolmama!]

Another question: Should we just drain the waterfall pump now and turn off the breaker to it? With a several day stretch of high temps below freezing, I can see our stone waterfall completely freezing over.

 

[mguzzy]

Please make sure to spend a few minutes while it’s warm’ish to learn how to winterize your pad. For sure you can run the equipment with weather that cold, just prepare for worst case. If power goes out due to ice or whatever your plumbing will be full of water and will freeze in time. Just be prepared to drain everything.....just in case. Don’t wait until it’s 10° to learn.

I'm going to reiterate Leebo's comment to be prepared.... When its warm out.. you need to prepare and move someplace that stays warm out.. it was 70-ish for me too on Stupid Bowl Sunday!

 

[Leebo]

Running the pump should take care of many issues. The temps there really aren’t gonna be horrid for a long time, a tarp over the equipment….a warm light….and running your pump should address the huge majority of your issues. Take a gander at the following thread,

The Physics of Freezing and Freeze Protection

Recently, there have been a lot of questions from those living in moderate climates about using automatic freeze protection or running pumps to prevent freezing and what a pool owner should do when temperatures drop so I thought it might be useful to have a thread which dealt with the issue from...

www.troublefreepool.com

That said, know your equipment. Learn how to drain it in a pinch IF worse case hits and you have no power. Do all this while it’s warm outside as I promise you’ll be using dollar words if you’re outside in 10° weather learning how to drain your pad.

 

[JJ_Tex]

For those of you using freeze protection, don’t forget that you can turn down your spa rpms.
After sitting here all day watching my pool cycle between pool and spa mode, it finally dawned on me that I don’t need the spa mode to crank up to 2500 rpms and give me good jet action while I’m sitting inside. I changed my spa mode to 1800 rpms, so I can save a few $ over the next week while I wait for this stupid weather to go back to wherever it came from.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Do we do anything with the skimmers? We have a heat pump...wondering if the water will drain out of it if we drain the filter and pumps as you describe?

I would hope that we would not have to do anything with the skimmers. I get it up north that you want to protect the plastic skimmer from the expansion of ice. In the event we would lose power and start having to drain water from equipment, I would think that we would not have to worry about the actual pool freezing over and damaging the skimmers. If my pool does freeze over, I'm putting up a for sale sign and moving somewhere warmer.

 

[Newdude]

I would think that we would not have to worry about the actual pool freezing over and damaging the skimmers

Even if it did freeze over, it would not be cold enough for long enough to create thick damaging ice. For you to get an inch of ice would be a once in a lifetime event and that inch would have plenty of room to expand upward. The rest of the time you would be hard pressed to even get a thin crust like layer of ice.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

You should be okay to run the pump but being prepared to pull the bottom plug from the filter if needed (like the power goes out). As long as there is sufficient air and headspace the pipes won't split because the freezing water will seek the path of least resistance... the expanding ice will take up the headspace... leaving the plug off will help with that.

I would probably run the pump on high-ish if it is a VSP though.. for a couple of days that shouldn't break the bank. The freeze protection on mine has kicked on twice this season, and it runs it at 3/4 max speed. Before the youngest dog ate my thermometer (yes, I need to order another one before spring) the coldest the water got here this year was 49F though so I haven't been too worried. Remember it does take more than a couple of hours to freeze a pipe. If you are like us and then get well above freezing during the day it's highly unlikely you'll have an issue.

I spent 95% of my life within three hundred miles of jseyfert3 and it's amazing how often I get asked for advice on pipes freezing here when it will be below freezing for 3 hours at night (nope won't happen)... so yeah they do freak out in the south. I've never have even bothered to do anything with the irrigation system here. If I split one of those tubes it would be obvious and about a $0.50 repair... Haven't had to do that yet in three winters.

It does, by the way, take a lot more energy to transition states in water so that it why it doesn't immediately freeze when water hits 32F.... That gains you a couple of hours as does the thermal mass of everything. This is why throwing a blanket over it is a good idea too, you are insulating and increasing the thermal mass.