Another Slow Slammer

[Travis Murray]

I know these types of questions get asked a lot, but I'm looking for a bit of guidance. I've always gone the "pool store" route for clearing up my green pool, with mixed results (including spending $2,500 on chemicals and algaecide in 2019 and not getting to swim in my pool a single day). Last year was a good year, but this year has been tough to get it going again, and I was tired of just giving them money with little results, so I decided to try the SLAM method.

Here were my starting numbers:

Free Chlorine - 7.5
Total Chlorine - 7.5
Combined Chlorine - 0
Total Bromine - 15
pH - 7.2
Total Alkalinity - 70
Calcium Hardness - 550
CYA - 70 (brought down from 90, two days before starting the SLAM).

I started the SLAM on May 2 and have been very consistent with it. I do not lose much FC, and usually only have to add once or twice a day (maintaining FC of 28 - it has never fallen below 23). The first few days, my pool turned from a very dark green into a much prettier emerald green, but it hasn't really changed much since then. I am seeing progress every day, but I have to look really hard for it. At this point, 16 days in, I still cannot see the bottom of the shallow end (although I can see the pool cleaner when it's in the shallow end) and the pool is still very green (see attached pic - it shows the pool cleaner in 3ft of water). I can see the jets clearly, but once it gets much deeper than that, visibility drops off fast.

If the answer is "keep doing what you're doing and be patient", I'm fine with that. But if there are tweaks I can/should make, or other things I should be considering, I'm all ears.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cowboycasey]

You are doing it the slow way... Add and test every 2 hours.. if it drops from 28 to 26 add till back to 28... the closer you keep it at 28 the faster it goes... I was adding when it fell to 27.. If you are working that is fine but hit it hard when you get home.. The weekend is 16 hours a day checking every hour or 2... At FC of 28 you want the SLAM over fast..

I am not sure how you are getting a 0 CC as you are fighting algae...

While you are in the SLAM the only thing you are testing is FC and CC, everything else is done after the SLAM is over...

With a sand filter you can add some DE in after your water has turned blue and it is just cloudy.. Sand filters are easy but not great at clearing a cloudy pool

 

[Travis Murray]

@cowboycasey, thanks for the response.

Just to clarify, I'm never letting it drop to 23 intentionally - it's just the lowest I've seen it in the 16 days that I've been doing this. I'm testing 2-3 times per day, and usually it's somewhere in the 25-28 range. That said, I work from home and will increase the frequency of the testing and topping off.

I'm not sure how I got the CC of 0, either. That was just my initial starting measurement (after two failed attempts at dumping hundreds of dollars worth of Crud from the pool store into my pool). I've only been measuring FC since I started the SLAM, but will measure CC, as well. Anything I should be looking for at this point in the process, from a CC standpoint? Any adjustments I should make if it's higher or lower than expected? I know I need to use it to help determine when the SLAM is over, but what should I be expecting that number to tell me now while the pool is still green?

When DE time comes, I should put it into the skimmer (mixed with water), correct? 1/4 cup at a time until the pressure in my filter raises by 1psi?

 

[Travis Murray]

As a follow-up here is some up-to-date info.

9:30am today, FC was at 25. Topped it up to 28.
1pm today, FC was a 27.5. Topped it up to 28.
4pm today, FC was 28, CC was 0.5.
5:30pm today, FC was 28, CC was 0.5.

Will test again around 7:30 and update with my results.

 

[Mdragger88]

Also don’t forget the power of brushing! Brush & or vacuum every day. Have you removed all the debris/leaves from the pool as best as possible?
Exactly what pool store potions have you added - specifically algeacides?
The green is intense.
When u get more visibility be sure to scrub all the nooks & crannies- like light niches, ladder cups, skimmer throats, weir doors (check the foam), drain covers etc. Until then scrub blindly
Backwash when pressure rises 25% over clean pressure.
I see u have zeo , is your pump single speed?
When you get this handled & are enjoying your Trouble Free summer we can also help you w/proper opening & closing techniques to prevent the spring green monster in the future.

 

[cowboycasey]

As a follow-up here is some up-to-date info.

9:30am today, FC was at 25. Topped it up to 28.
1pm today, FC was a 27.5. Topped it up to 28.
4pm today, FC was 28, CC was 0.5.
5:30pm today, FC was 28, CC was 0.5.

Will test again around 7:30 and update with my results.

That is the way to do it... Perfect.. it is interesting you are only getting 0.5 cc

I have never used DE, I just know you can having a sand filter but those are the directions I remember

 

[Flying Tivo]

When DE time comes, I should put it into the skimmer (mixed with water), correct? 1/4 cup at a time until the pressure in my filter raises by 1psi?

Do NOT add DE to zeolite.

 

[Travis Murray]

@Mdragger88
Thanks for the reply. Here are my answers to your questions.
1. I brush the areas I can really see, and I have been running my pool cleaner 3-4 times per day (2.5 hours at a time). The pool cleaner has brushes on the front that do a decent job, but obviously not as good as scrubbing the nooks and crannies. Fortunately, my pool doesn't have too many nooks and crannies.
2. For the pool store treatment, it was a lot of powdered shock, plus Green to Clean (the first time) and Leslie's Algae Control (the second time). The green is intense, but nowhere near where I started the SLAM (wish I had gotten a true "before" picture).
3. Yes, my pump is single speed, running 24x7 right now.
4. Thanks for the offer, but once I get this handled, I don't think I'm going to close the pool for the winter. Just keep it crystal clear all winter long and never deal with this again.

@Flying Tivo
Thanks for the input on adding (or not adding) DE to Zeolite. What's the reasoning there? On a side note, anybody want to buy a brand new bucket of DE (if I'm not able to successfully cancel the order)? Hahahaha.

And another update - measured again at 8:15pm, and the FC was at 27, CC at 0.5. Topped up the FC to 28. More updates as I go, with pictures daily.

Thanks everybody!

 

[cowboycasey]

Do NOT add DE to zeolite.

I thought it was "just like sand" I guess not??

 

[Flying Tivo]

Sand is a solid particle, zeo is a porous particle.

 

[Flying Tivo]

I thought it was "just like sand" I guess not??

That is why many fail using Zeo. They advertise it as a direct replacement but has different properties.

 

[Mdragger88]

@Travis Murray
The zeo likes it low & slow but your 1.5 hp single speed pump is anything but. If you’re not having problems with it blowing out then you’re probably ok with it. Like Tivo said no DE . It will just clog it up.
I have always had clear water but when I replaced my zeo w/ sand after 2 seasons (i have a big single speed pump too) & it was nasty looking. It was white when it was put in but it was black when I vacuumed it out . Not sure if you can deep clean zeo like sand.

The green to clean is ammonia which probably added to the length of your slam as well as your empty bleach bottle count- however you are holding some chlorine now so you’ve overcome all the ammonia probably.

The Leslies algae control seems to be polyquat 60 which is the only algeacide recommended here (no copper =good news) but it’s only to prevent algae when fc drops, not overcome it . It is also rendered mostly useless at high chlorine levels so i am sorry you wasted $ with it in that fashion based on bad advice
Oh well, live & learn.

Glad to hear you are brushing frequently- just keep going at it. Pool Owner Patience.

BYW- If u have the PoolMath subscription & can keep logs you can make them visible to us by toggling on sharing in the settings menu.

 

[Travis Murray]

Wednesday morning update.

Since my last update, I tested two more times - at 12:30am and again at 9am. FC was holding steady at 28 both times, and CC was holding steady at 0.5. Nothing added this morning. Will diligently check every two hours today and adjust as needed.

Attached a picture of the pool from this morning. No real visible change from yesterday (not that I was expecting a miracle - just posting here daily).

I'll look into sharing the PoolMath logs, to make it easier. I haven't been logging it yet, just calculating, adjusting, and moving on.

 

[cowboycasey]

That is a really bright green and FC held steady at 28 for 9 hours...

hmmmm, do you have metals in your water? I am not good with diagnosing metals I just know what others have asked... Can you take a sample to the place we say never to go to, a pool store... They have the ability to see if you have metals in your water...

@Texas Splash Have you seen something like this before?

 

[Travis Murray]

@cowboycasey My last water test at the Pool Store That Shall Not Be Named was on April 28. It showed no iron and copper of 0.3 (which I understand to be in normal range, but I don't necessarily trust much of what I understood in the past anymore).

I just did another test and my FC was down to 25. Is this normal at all? No drop in FC from 10:30 last night to 9:00 this morning, then a 3ppm drop between 9:00 and 11:00? Topped it back up, for now, and will check again at 1:00.

 

[Flying Tivo]

@Travis Murray im very worried that all that chlorine is not making a color change on you water. It can only boil down to 3 things:
1. Your CYA test is not accurate.(bad reagents, bad testing)
2. Chlorine testing(bad reagents, bad Testing,Sample size)
3. Never seen or heard about the Taylor 81-330 test kit. I would highly suggest you buy the Taylor k2006C or TF-100.

We really need to rule out bad testing, bad reagents, etc. I know its a little more expense but will save you money on the long run.
That color of green does not look to me like metals.

 

[Texas Splash]

I agree that is an unsettling shade of green. You may have had algae at one point which is why the color changed a bit, but with no FC dropping, it may now be copper related. As unreliable as we know store testing is, it also applies to their metals numbers. The fact they showed at least 0.3 is a red flag. If neither you or anyone else before you added copper-based products, it's a bit of a mystery. Copper doesn't typically come from ground water. No heater in your signature, so no equipment that would have a copper core right? Does your home or outside plumbing have old copper lines perhaps?

 

[Travis Murray]

@Flying Tivo The only thing I'm actually using from the testing kit right now is the cylinder that I'm using to do the testing. I bought the DPD Powder (R-0870) and the FAS-DPD Titrating Reagent (R-0871) separately. From what I can tell, those are the exact same products that come in the k2006C and the TF-100. Does the tube I'm doing the testing in make a significant difference? Or is there something else I'm missing? I'm happy to spend the money, I'm just not understanding where it would be going at this point, other than having a box with different numbers on it.

Regarding the CYA, is my understanding correct that this is not something I can test again (accurately) during the SLAM? If so, what's my next move to determine if my CYA measurement was off?

@Texas Splash We had a heater in the past, but it has been bypassed since 2013. Completely out of the circulation loop. House was built in 2000, and as far as I know there is are no copper lines. Looking back at my history of store tests, my copper has mostly fluctuated between 0 and 0.1, outside one test in 2018 that was 0.3. I did two store tests a week apart in April of this year, and the first came back as 0.2 and the second came back as 0.3. If copper is the issue, what's my next move?

Also, I don't know if this is relevant or not, but I'm putting this out there in case it is. The change I have seen has been with both color and clarity. When I started the SLAM a few weeks ago, I could not see the returns, and could only see the top step in the shallow end of the pool. Now I can see the returns clearly, as well as all four steps (but not the bottom of the shallow end). Again, I'm not sure if any of this matters.

Is there any relevance to the drop I saw between 9am and 11am this morning? Yesterday, I was seeing the FC drop at least some throughout the daylight hours, but almost none at all after dark.

Time for another test. Will post results in a few.

 

[Texas Splash]

You can test CYA at any time, no worries there. I don't recall if this was already asked, but did you close the pool last winter? If so, anything unusual added other than algaecide and antifreeze perhaps? I'm not surprised that you have seen some water clarity changes because early this month there probably was algae. But once you see clear water, have next to no CCs, and pass an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, the algae is probably gone and that seems to leave copper. I don't suppose you see any staining around the pool do you? If we place the blame on copper, the ideal way to remove it is a water exchange. Of course you can't empty all of it to protect the shell and liner stability, but a good 1/2 - 3/4 exchange would certainly help. Before that however, you might check with y our local water company or municipalities to see if they reported any unusual copper levels in local water. I highly doubt it, but might be worth checking to be sure. Remember that copper never leaves the water unless you change it, so any copper added in years past just kept on increasing. You're welcome to give the SLAM Process another day or two if you wish, but don't be surprised if the color doesn't change. In fact, if it doesn't change, you might let the FC fall to normal levels (5-7 ppm) and keep the pH at about 7.2 - 7.4. The elevated FC level will certainly aggravate copper, so before changing water let the FC fall and see if the angry green goes away. If it does, you know your copper level is right on the edge of precipitation and the FC and pH need to be closely managed until you can exchange water.

 

[Travis Murray]

@Texas Splash - Thanks for the info. I don't see any staining at all around the pool.

At 1pm, I tested CC and it was down to 25 again, so I topped it back up. Also (and likely most importantly), I did a CYA test and it was off the charts. My test kit only has lines up to a CYA of 100, but I would guess it's in the 120-130 range. So time to press pause on the SLAM, I think.

I'm thinking a partial water exchange is my best option at this point, as that would address both the CYA and the copper (if there is any). Do you guys agree? And if so, how much? Do I start immediately, or wait for the FC to fall?