Another Pool Heater Hayward h400idl - IF ignition failure error

[shawnp40]

James, I was hoping you can help me as well. Similar situation.
H400 Gas Heater about 10 years old. Just opened pool.
Turned heater on and set temp to call for heat.
I can hear blower, I see the "heat" light illuminate then it clicks and fails.
That cycle repeats two more times, then IF code.

I checked both the supply gas line is open and the gas control module is set to on inside the unit.
I included a picture here. I check the four fuses, all look good. I use a meter to check the igniter. It read 14 ohms.
I guess I have a newer style one? you can see it at the bottom of the picture. Any advice on next steps?

I have no idea how to check the gas pressure or regulator, and don't think I smell any during these cycles.

 

[kimkats]

@Jimrahbe can you help this person also? THANKS!

 

[swamprat69]

I can see from your photo that you have spiderwebs under the gas manifold that are collecting leaves/pine needles. There also appears to be spiderwebs on the upper part of the gas manifold out of the gas valve and the second orifice from the right on the gas manifold. You may also have spiderwebs inside of the burners and if the heater has not been cleaned on a regular basis you may have a blockage/restriction at the burner slots. Any of these blockages/restrictions through the orifices/burners can cause a disruption to the path of gas flow and result in the heater not lighting off.

 

[shawnp40]

Ok will clean thoroughly soon. Thanks for this next step.

 

[shawnp40]

Cleaned throughout. used pipe cleaner to clean out burner holes and manifold valves and all orifices.
Still no go.
I don't smell any gas around the manifold during cycles. I believe I am smelling gas from the rear blower exhaust.

I am worried its the gas valve unit (seems very hard to find for my aged model). Or even the gas regulator which I imagine I need to hire a licensed expert to help diagnose / replace. Seems like there was not much winterization done to heater, just opened drain cap. The gas valve unit was left in "on" position and the gas valve on the supply line (outside unit) was also left open. Is that normal?

 

[swamprat69]

Yes it will not hurt to leave both gas valves open. Are you sure that the ignitor is heating up. You can shut off the gas valve that is outside of the heater, pull out the ignitor and let it hang free. Run the heater for a cycle and see if the ignitor gets hot. If it heats up be sure to let it cool off before reinserting. The gas valve for this style of heater is fairly common ( 24 volt gas valve with factory set pressure at ~ 3.5"" WC), normally "snap opening".

 

[shawnp40]

Will try this today. Thank you. I hope it’s ignitor I believe I am capable of replacing that. Seems straightforward. Will reply with results.

 

[markayash]

Can you tell if the pilot light is lighting?

 

[shawnp40]

I definitely cannot see the pilot light, where should I be looking, is there a peep hole or something?
I doubt it, I see no flames or heat anywhere.
I am about to pull the ignitor and see if it gets hot.

 

[markayash]

I definitely cannot see the pilot light, where should I be looking, is there a peep hole or something?
I doubt it, I see no flames or heat anywhere.
I am about to pull the ignitor and see if it gets hot.

If it won't light it will do what your seeing and shut down..Maybe you can clean it good and be back to new.

 

[shawnp40]

Ok so I pulled the ignitor and ran a cycle.
It burned red HOT. So definitely not the ignitor.

Where is the pilot light? Is that something different, should I pull that and clean it?

Any other ideas?

 

[markayash]

I am not familiar with your model, the pilot light should be right under the igniter and light when you start it up. That then heats the thermocoupler that tells the gas valve " we have a flame, all engines fire"

 

[swamprat69]

There is no pilot on that heater, the burners light directly from the hot surface ignitor. If the hot surface ignitor is working and the orifices and burners are clean and unobstructed, then the problem would likely be with the gas flow. You would need to check the gas pressure at the outlet side of the gas valve with a manometer and it should be ~ 3.5" WC (water column). You would need a manometer like one of these...https://www.amazon.com/RadonAway-50018-Easy-Read-Manometer/dp/B00KXB6Z32/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=manometer&qid=1586476058&sr=8-8&th=1 or Amazon.com: Yellow Jacket 78060 Complete Test Kit, 0-35" W.C: Industrial & Scientific. It would be easier with the yellowjacket because it holds no liquid and does not have to be in the upright position to read but either would work. You would also need a fitting like this https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...MIhJzS_8Tc6AIVAsRkCh1YLwaxEAQYBSABEgKIgvD_BwE ( 1/8: male NPT by barbed hose connector) to tap into the access port on the gas valve which is removed with an allen wrench. This video will show you where the pressure tap access ports are commonly found on gas valves

. I don't know if the RadonAway utube manometer comes with any tubing to attach it to the brass barbed fitting?

 

[shawnp40]

Got a guy to come out and test. He tested 9WC inlet and 3WC outlet. Adjusted slightly. He said gas valve and regulator were working as expected.
Thoroughly cleaned manifold and burner tubes. Worked for a few hours.
Today I fired it up and it went through the three cycles and IF again. No idea now what to do.

Man-o-man this is frustrating.

 

[swamprat69]

Did he also clean the flame sensor?

 

[swamprat69]

And the ground?

 

[shawnp40]

I think I can do both of those myself, will try tomorrow. He is coming back Monday and may be comes up with other ideas if that does not work. Truly thanks for all the advice. Now I just gotta know what is the deal with this thing.

 

[shawnp40]

I think I can do both of those myself, will try tomorrow. He is coming back Monday and may be comes up with other ideas if that does not work. Truly thanks for all the advice. Now I just gotta know what is the deal with this thing.

I cleaned off flame sensor. Thought that was it. The connection spade had rust. I wire brushed it all off and tried again.
No go. Still cycles.
Heater guy has not come back yet to help.
Any other ideas? This thing can’t be that complicated...

FYI Ground looked brand new. No rust and strong connection.

 

[swamprat69]

It might be helpful to post photos of your gas piping outside of the heater and also from the gas meter to ensure that the buried part of the piping was done correctly. It would also be helpful to know the age of both the heater and the gas piping. It might also be helpful since your weather is still on the cold side to have your heater guy check if your heater will start up while both your furnace/boiler and water heater are already running. I don't see any information on your pool and equipment attached to your posts??

 

[shawnp40]

Updated signature.
Attaching images of outside gas supply, exterior gas inlet, cleaned manifold.
When heater guy comes back will turn on house heat and test again.

I believe the unit / piping is around 10 years old.

I know there is some corrosion on the main supply line. I have alerted Gas company and they will address when parts are available.
Again he tested inlet pressure at ~9 WC.