Another dead GFCI breaker - what is a normal lifespan?

[csn]

Hi-

About 15 minutes after my pump came on this morning the GFCI breaker died again. I last replaced it almost 3 years ago in Sep 2019. I also replaced it in 2013 (as best as I can remember).

Any idea what the normal lifespan is on these?

The one that died is a Cutler Hammer GFTCB220 20 Amp 2 Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker.

I bought the last one of Amazon, so maybe I got a refurb or used item, who knows.

My pool electrical box is mounted on the outside of my garage under an awning.

I don’t have a recommended electrical supply store near me, normally I prefer to buy in person, but not keen to drive 30 minutes to a random supply store.

It looks like this Siemens unit at lowes will work, but it will be a tight fit in the breaker box.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-QP-20-Amp-2-Pole-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker/50195863

 

[JamesW]

About 15 minutes after my pump came on this morning the GFCI breaker died again.

Died how?

 

[Randrx2]

Do you notice any corrosion in your electric panel? Make sure your panel is sealed (I am assuming it is a NEMA 3R, please verify).

 

[JamesW]

Are you getting ants or other insects?

 

[csn]

Came outside, pump is stopped. Breaker is in tripped position, but will not turn on and stay on.

Turned off supply to breaker box, disconnected pump wires from breaker, turned supply to breaker on. Tried turning breaker on, but it will not click on.

So this leads me to believe the breaker died.

Died how?

 

[JamesW]

Normally, breakers last for at least 10 years or more.

Maybe a bad location with water getting in or ants, wasps etc. or corrosion from chemicals nearby.

Do you have pictures of everything?

 

[csn]

Do you notice any corrosion in your electric panel? Make sure your panel is sealed (I am assuming it is a NEMA 3R, please verify).

Pool was installed late 80s and got the regular old GE breaker box treatment. The box does stay dry where it is. We have strong thunderstorms roll trough houston last night (1.5” of rain over 30 minutes) and the box was dry.

Note in the photos I have the internal cover plate off.

 

[csn]

Are you getting ants or other insects?

No issue with ants or bugs.

Edit: everything is clean inside the box. The broken breaker looks almost new.

 

[borjis]

I replaced my pool equipment, normal breaker with a Siemens GFCI breaker in early 2016. Still going strong, if that helps.

 

[csn]

My best guess right now is I just got bad luck with an Amazon purchase. The breakers are all through 3rd party sellers, could have been a refurb or used. Who knows. Maybe time to try the Siemens from lowes…

 

[JamesW]

The bus bars are heavily oxidized, so I suspect overheating.

I would replace the subpanel and the breakers.

Also, you have neutrals and grounds tied together, which is not done on a subpanel.

That needs to be corrected.

The oxidation might be normal for aluminum it might indicate a corrosive atmosphere or maybe a stray current.

There will be stray current from the tied neutrals and grounds, which is a safety hazard.

 

[JamesW]

 

[csn]

Yeah, you’re probably right that subpanel replacement would be the next step.

I’m not sure those are neutrals and grounds together. In 2013 I had a new gas heater installed and they just wired it into that breaker (it’s hard to find good contractors in Houston - the city is growing so fast and anyone can get a job…). The two brown wires go to the timer box for the pump. The two black wires go to the gas heater.

 

[csn]

There will be stray current from the tied neutrals and grounds, which is a safety hazard.

Ah, I misunderstood earlier. Guessing you mean down here…

 

[JamesW]

It looks like the neutrals and grounds are connected.

The ground wires need their own bar with a main ground wire back to the panel.

I recommend that you have an electrician replace the subpanel and breakers and get it all up to code.

 

[wireform]

I'm not for the black wire feeding the neural bar, at least some white tape to differentiate between the L1 L2

 

[csn]

I'm not for the black wire feeding the neural bar, at least some white tape to differentiate between the L1 L2

Yeah, I didn’t do that work. Pretty sure a master electrician would not sign off on that.

Back in 2012, I didn’t appreciate that most contractors in Houston will cut all sorts of corners. It’s a lot different than other places I’ve lived where you need to maintain a good reputation to stay in business.

I guess I can add it to my lengthy home maintenance backlog. Run new cable to the heater and timer.

 

[csn]

Actually, time to call an electrician…

 

[csn]

One thing I’m confused about right now is I only see three wires coming into the subpanel from the main panel (3 black wires in photo). I don’t see an obvious ground wire.

 

[csn]

The plot is thickening… I guess a long time ago, it was permissible to have a 220V subpanel with no dedicated ground. The original garage is from 1919, though the current garage is newer, I need to check when it was built… I wonder if the newer garage structure predates this requirement or it was built after and someone got lazy not updating the wiring. Fun stuff living in a 100 year old house.

Edit: looks like 3-wire 220V is pretty common. This stackexchange thread has a good explanation. I still need to talk to an electrician to look at options on the bonded ground-neutrals.

Inadequate grounding of sub panel

Three wire system. Twenty years ago i installed 50 amp Sub panel at the garage connected to house panel. It supplies 3 circuits at 15 amps, 1 at 20, a double 20. There is no ground rod at the g...

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