And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

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Derb22

Derb22

0
Gold Supporter
Apr 29, 2018
328
Roswell GA
Pool Size
24000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60
Today. Me
FC - 5.0
TA - 70 tested 4 Times today.
CH - 375 tested 4 Times now today.
ph 7.8
cya - 70
borates - 48

pool company as I’m standing there.
FC - 5
TA - 40 ( no 2 drops of r-0007 added per test instructions.)
CH - 200 ??????? What ......
ph - 8.0 tested ph with half full water tube. Somewhhere between 25 and 44. When I said something. Oh yeah.......
CYA - 70
borates. What’s that???


Me - questioned readings. Pool company no like. Me no longer customer!!!!!
 
Re: And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

No one will take care of your pool as good as you will. It's obvious just from the pool company's testing methods. They don't care or they are in a hurry to get to their next account, or maybe it's lunch time. Great decision.
 
Re: And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

FYI, the water volume for the pH test does not really matter. You can vary the number of drops too. You are looking at the hue, not the saturation.

You have certainly made the right decision ... I have never seen a service company test more than the quick OTO or DPD and pH, throw some stuff at the pool and run back to the truck.
 
Re: And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

jblizzle said:
FYI, the water volume for the pH test does not really matter. You can vary the number of drops too. You are looking at the hue, not the saturation.

You have certainly made the right decision ... I have never seen a service company test more than the quick OTO or DPD and pH, throw some stuff at the pool and run back to the truck.
Click to expand...

Precisely. Always rushing. Interesting about the ph instructions. Then why 44 ML and why 5 drops?
He was in the 35 ML range and still 5 drops.
 
Re: And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

There are actually 2 different concentrations of the pH reagent from Taylor for the 2 different pH sample sizes. They claim they are not interchangable, but I think I have seen where you can get by in a pinch by varying the number of drops.

I think if you get too far out of the norm for the water volume or the number of drops it may be hard to match the hue. But if you are within a 4-6 drops you should be able to read the results. Some find they get an easier match with fewer drops ... maybe as the colors on the comparator fade?
 
Re: And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

Numbers
FC - 5.5
CC - .5
TA- 70
PH - 7.8 ish maybe between 7.8 and 8.0
CYA - 70
CH - 350
BA - 48

I recently have added the SWG ( two months ago) and the Boric Acid a couple of weeks ago. Pool company added MA last Thursday( I didn’t know until after he added it and I am no longer using a pool company) and brought it down to around 7.4. should i I wait and see if PH settles here at 7.8 ish? My only concern is the Taylor test kit doesn’t go above 8.0 on the color chart. Is there other concerns about a higher ph?


also it is forecasted to rain here in Hotlanta for about the next 7 days. 2 - 5 inches. should that matter what I do? Other than building an ark?

Oops - forgot the CYA added now
 
Last edited:
Re: And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

Sounds to me like you're doing great! Yep, the pH will drift up on it's own. Adjust the pH when/if you see it go above 7.8. You'll use a bit less acid if you just drop it down to 7.6ish. The adjustment down to 7.4 is not harmful, but pH will move up faster from a lower pH.

When posting test results, be sure to include CYA, even if the test was a few weeks ago. The reason I mention it is that both CYA and borates are part of the alkalinity. It's not important just now, but completes the overall chemistry picture.

Looking good and sounds like you have a good handle on TFPC!
 
Re: And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

needsajet said:
Sounds to me like you're doing great! Yep, the pH will drift up on it's own. Adjust the pH when/if you see it go above 7.8. You'll use a bit less acid if you just drop it down to 7.6ish. The adjustment down to 7.4 is not harmful, but pH will move up faster from a lower pH.

When posting test results, be sure to include CYA, even if the test was a few weeks ago. The reason I mention it is that both CYA and borates are part of the alkalinity. It's not important just now, but completes the overall chemistry picture.

Looking good and sounds like you have a good handle on TFPC!
Click to expand...


Thanks needsajet. Can’t believe I left it out. - added CYA to the post. I guess I’m asking if I should ride it here and see if it stabilizes around 7.8. I have read some posts that PH can stabilize around 7.8 in SWG pools with Borates. My concerns are the test kit limit of 8.0 and any bad things I don’t know about if it rises above that level. I am perfectly happy adding 38 oz. of MA once a week or so if that is the
Balance for my pool but I guess I’m asking the down side to seeing where it wants to balance (if at all). Hope I’m making sense. Also to add to the equation I do have a small every 5 to 10 second water leak at the pump. When my pump and SWG turn on in the morning there is a 20 second or so action where there is a bunch of air being released from the returns. Could this also create PH creep. I will hopefully get to the DIY repair this week. Depends on the rain.
 
Re:  And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

ajw22 said:
PH rise in SWG pools is a constant battle. Read this thread - https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/6996-pH-Rise-in-SWG-Pools & https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/47539-Why-does-pH-rise-with-salt-systems
Click to expand...
I have read through those posts but they are over 6 years old. Was wondering about practical real world experiences and to see if the chem guys ever really found the answer. It seems to me reading through those that the PH rise is still not quite accounted for in a SWG pool. I was making sure there wasn’t more info here that had been updated. I don’t have water features. I do see the bubbles from the returns and I have added Borates. Just asking questions to get better at this and see if I can find a better balance for the pool. I think less is more so if there is a way to add less MA per week by letting the PH sit at 7.8 maybe 7.9 then unless there is a down side I was willling to try it if there isn’t a down side.
While I appreciate the responses the questions I asked wasn’t really addressed. There are plenty of people on this forum who do not have to add weekly doses of MA, with a SWG, some only a couple of times a season. Understanding that all pools are not equal I would still like to strive for both better understanding and a pool that is better balanced.
 

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Re:  And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

I will even add a second question. I’m new pool ownership, this forum and new to my own testing. Because of this, and maybe a lesson for everyone here it is hard on an intellectual level to suddenly trust my own testing over a supposed expert, be it pool company or store. I have spent at least 60 or better hours reading through tons of posts and I did see a trend.

Why do pool companies seem to read TA lower than home testing.
Why do they also read CH lower. As I discussed before they were going to add CH because they read 200. I continually test at 375. If I had allowed them to add the 20 Lbs of ( calcium chloride ??) my readings would now be over 500.
How can the consistently be that off? It’s notmlike the tests are rocket science? Off a little I can understand, Off by nearly 70 - 80% causes me to question my own numbers.
 
A SWCG will tend to raise your pH with use. The other large factor is TA and pH of fill water. Those with SWCG that have steady pH tend to have low pH fill water.

Test your fill water for pH, TA, and CH. It is good to have that information. Also how much water you typically need to add due to evaporation. If minimal, then your fill water is rain. Rain is typically acidic and the droplets of rain hitting the surface of the pool creates aeration which also raises pH.

Take care.
 
Any aeration speeds it up, but if it's brief, probably not much effect.

There's no technical reason for an SWG to cause higher pH, other than the bit of aeration caused by the release of hydrogen bubbles. Rising pH is most of all from incoming water bringing in more alkalinity. Your pool might stabilize at 7.8 but more likely not. As soon as you get to a hot dry period with lots of swimming, your fill water will probably add TA and you'll need acid to knock it back.

For satisfying curiosity, you can test by turning off the SWG and using liquid for a couple weeks. If weather and pool use are similar, there's little difference in the amount of acid needed to achieve a particular pH.
 
mknauss said:
A SWCG will tend to raise your pH with use. The other large factor is TA and pH of fill water. Those with SWCG that have steady pH tend to have low pH fill water.

Test your fill water for pH, TA, and CH. It is good to have that information. Also how much water you typically need to add due to evaporation. If minimal, then your fill water is rain. Rain is typically acidic and the droplets of rain hitting the surface of the pool creates aeration which also raises pH.

Take care.
Click to expand...
Great idea on fill water. I have an auto pool filler. Level is always the same but no way to gauge how much is being lost to both spill and evaporation. I will test the house water today.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

needsajet said:
Any aeration speeds it up, but if it's brief, probably not much effect.

There's no technical reason for an SWG to cause higher pH, other than the bit of aeration caused by the release of hydrogen bubbles. Rising pH is most of all from incoming water bringing in more alkalinity. Your pool might stabilize at 7.8 but more likely not. As soon as you get to a hot dry period with lots of swimming, your fill water will probably add TA and you'll need acid to knock it back.

For satisfying curiosity, you can test by turning off the SWG and using liquid for a couple weeks. If weather and pool use are similar, there's little difference in the amount of acid needed to achieve a particular pH.
Click to expand...


I will try the bleach method sometime soon and see if there is a difference. Another great idea. Thanks!
 
Re:  And no more pool company. Flying solo from here on out.

Derb22 said:
I will even add a second question. I’m new pool ownership, this forum and new to my own testing. Because of this, and maybe a lesson for everyone here it is hard on an intellectual level to suddenly trust my own testing over a supposed expert, be it pool company or store.
Click to expand...

Because it is not in their interest to find nothing wrong with your water. Whether consciously or subconsciously, they want to help you fix *something*.

This is not unique to the pool industry. My wife is a former dental assistant. Everyone in their office had a mouthful of dental work, bridges, crowns, etc. Much more than the public at large. Was it because they didn't know how to take care of their teeth? No, quite the contrary. It's what they did, and they saw the need to do *something*, whether (IMHO) it needed to be done or not.
 
I know my pool is a baby pool compared to some of you, but all last year and this year so far, my ph pretty much sticks to 7.5. Last year TA stayed at 70, this year so far it is 80. I think once you find your magic spot, it gets easier.
 
So it seems I’m settling in on needing about 40 oz or so of MA each week to keep PH out of the 8.0 range. I wish the test kit went higher just to have a feel for if it’s actually going higher than 8.0 but the Taylor Kit only does 7.0 - 8.0.
Today:
Ph 7.8 or 7.9
FC 5.5
TA 80
Cya - 70
BA - 48
CH - 375
salt 3300

I’m wondering if I should try to take the TA lower again only this time to around 50. I realize now with new information on drop tests that the last cycle of lower PH / lower TA / raise PH with aeration that I might have never gotten TA below 65 - 70.

I know I am being a perfectionist with the pool but I would like to figure out how to slow the PH creep if possible. I do have a small leak at the pump that may be adding aeration to the PH rise. I do not have any fountains or waterfalls just a rambunctious splashed filled two kids. I am also wondering that by Super sizing my SWG with the -60 (for pools 60,000 gallons) that I created more PH rise. Right now I am running the pump 9 hours a day 9 am to 6 pm and the SWG is at 40% to keep pretty much 6 FC test the next mornomg at 8 am.

The plan is to fix the leak tomorrow but looking for any other suggestions or is it just something that I will have to get used to?
 
You can add an acid demand reagent to your kit. You can add drops to see how many it takes to lower to something you can read the color matching test. This allows you to have a feel for how much you may be above the scale.
 

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