I am not very good at math, and have been trying to raise my alkalinity with a large bag of alkalinity up for pools. I am not even sure the scoop size it does not say but it is about the size of a golf ball. I had been stuck at 60ppm for a while, add a scoop wait a day test and repeat. Took at least 2 scoops to raise it 10ppm from 60-70ppm. I was targeting 80ppm so the next time I added 2 scoops thinking 5ppm per scoop according to last test. Well this last 2 scoops brought it from 70ppm to 160ppm! What?!
Alkalinity Moved FAST
- Thread starter pinkfloydeffect
- Start date
- May 3, 2014
- 59,398
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
total alkalinty test
the reagent bottle is very succeptible to static electricity
wipe the dropper between each drop for an accurate count
the reagent bottle is very succeptible to static electricity
wipe the dropper between each drop for an accurate count
For future reference- All that stuff is is baking soda. And costs more. Next time hit up Wallyworld and they sell large bags there for a fraction of the cost of "Alkalinity Increaser" at the Pool Store.
More bucks in your pocket for floats and pool toys, right!?!
Maddie
More bucks in your pocket for floats and pool toys, right!?!
Maddie
I did learn after buying the last bag it is only baking soda so I will be buying baking soda off Amazon for now on.
I do not understand how to use the PoolMath calculator.
I did a TA test this morning before using the spa and it came down to 110ppm so I am not sure. I actually frequently wipe the bottle droppers clean but that is interesting about the static!
Can the PoolMath be used line by line or do I have to plug in all perimeters before calculating?? I was not able to figure it out.
I do not understand how to use the PoolMath calculator.
I did a TA test this morning before using the spa and it came down to 110ppm so I am not sure. I actually frequently wipe the bottle droppers clean but that is interesting about the static!
Can the PoolMath be used line by line or do I have to plug in all perimeters before calculating?? I was not able to figure it out.
- May 3, 2014
- 59,398
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
pool math can be used one line at a time
just click on the next line and the other lines will self calculate
also each drop should take around one second, if you force the drops too quickly they can be smaller and skew the results
just click on the next line and the other lines will self calculate
also each drop should take around one second, if you force the drops too quickly they can be smaller and skew the results
I am reading up on how to use it right now. Thank you
Good info on the drop per second, because I use a SpeedStir....which is the best thing since sliced bread!
Good info on the drop per second, because I use a SpeedStir....which is the best thing since sliced bread!
So I have come to a conclusion today with this, the alkalinity has to be set higher than your target if you plan to use pH decreaser afterward because the sodium bisulfate lowers the alkalinity. I was going back and forth trying to work my way up, but it seems I need to do the alkalinity all at once based on how much sodium bisulfate I will be adding afterwards. Right?
the amount of baking soda to raise ta 10ppm will only increase ph 0.02ppm
do you have a complete set of test results
do you have a complete set of test results
I really do not understand what is going on then, yes I have complete results.
CH - 80ppm
ALK - 80ppm
PH - 7.6-8+
CYA - 40
I am using the balance calculator in the Taylor kit and things do not line up with the tub manual. Manufacture says CH is to be 50-150ppm and even 150ppm is low which means my alkalinity needs to be really high for a good saturation index at 100-104F. Seems like the calculator shows it being balanced with low CH and ALK long as the pH is at 7.8
Every time I get the alkalinity to 80ppm the pH is over 8 and when I add the sodium bisulfate the pH goes down but the alkalinity also drops with it. I think I need to get the alkalinity up to 120ppm before even trying to work on the pH with sodium bisulfate.
CH - 80ppm
ALK - 80ppm
PH - 7.6-8+
CYA - 40
I am using the balance calculator in the Taylor kit and things do not line up with the tub manual. Manufacture says CH is to be 50-150ppm and even 150ppm is low which means my alkalinity needs to be really high for a good saturation index at 100-104F. Seems like the calculator shows it being balanced with low CH and ALK long as the pH is at 7.8
Every time I get the alkalinity to 80ppm the pH is over 8 and when I add the sodium bisulfate the pH goes down but the alkalinity also drops with it. I think I need to get the alkalinity up to 120ppm before even trying to work on the pH with sodium bisulfate.
Adding acid lowers TA and pH. Why don't you increase your CH rather than your TA if you need to adjust your CSI?
So in other words the sodium bisulfate IS lowering the alkalinity?
The higher your CH the more buildup you get, and my tub manual says not to exceed 150ppm CH so I guess I have to play with other ranges instead?
The higher your CH the more buildup you get, and my tub manual says not to exceed 150ppm CH so I guess I have to play with other ranges instead?
You don't get buildup (calcium scaling) with only CH. What matters is the CSI. Poolmath calculates this, though you have to fill out ALL lines for it to work.
Also I'm confused. In your previous thread, you said you would take TA to 50 and keep it there, then raise your CH to ~150. Now you're trying to do something different?
Couple things to help you get the help you need/want:
Also I'm confused. In your previous thread, you said you would take TA to 50 and keep it there, then raise your CH to ~150. Now you're trying to do something different?
Couple things to help you get the help you need/want:
- State your goal, so we can help you understand what you need to do. No offense, it seems like you don't know what you're doing and it's hard to help you without all the details.
- Create a signature, so people responding know what hot tub and test kit you are using.
- May 3, 2014
- 59,398
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Please complete a signature describing your spa equipment.
If this is a fiberglass spa CSI is not very relative unless you get near or above 0.6. Negative CSI is not significant. Keep your levels as shown in the recommended levels in pool school for a fiberglass shell.
If this is a fiberglass spa CSI is not very relative unless you get near or above 0.6. Negative CSI is not significant. Keep your levels as shown in the recommended levels in pool school for a fiberglass shell.
Forgot to answer this. Yes, that's acid and acid lowers alkalinity. That's what acid/aeration does. Acid lowers TA, and pH, then aeration brings the pH back up. Once you get TA at around 50, aeration stops raising pH. I know first hand because I had to drop my TA from ~250 to 50.
I did stay true with starting with a TA of 50 but it was so low on the scale I decided to try matching it to my CH so I had one number to remember but I am realizing it does not work like that. Regarding the CH I decided to follow the directions in the manual by staying away from the maximum CH limit which is stated to be 150....I read that after the post you are referring to. Then once I got my K-2006 kit the Watergram starting making me plug numbers in.
You are right I do not know what I am doing but I am eager to learn, so I will state my current goals:
-Have a stable pH within range for my body (7.2-7.6)
-Not exceed the ranges recommenced by my manufacturer.
-Use the least amount of substances in my water (calcium, etc)
-Target the best possible saturation index which I do not understand.
Should I start a new thread titled balancing my tub or something and just stay there? I feel bad creating new threads.
I will do that, yes it is fiberglass.
Basically the poolmath calculator is a better version of my Taylor Watergram wheel? This stupid balancing wheel is what made me start playing with my levels. The saturation index was a whole new variable thrown at me.
Good to know. So when aeration brings the pH up is that only for that session or does it continue to rise each day after use higher and higher? I would assume it will rise to a cap for that session only then fall after use?
I only read once here to keep Alkalinity at 50, everywhere else including my manual, test kits, Google, chemical bottles, all say 80-160ppm.
aeration will continue to raise ph , after the session it will remain at the higher level, then raise further next session
a higher ta makes the rise worse
only way it lowers is with acid, or water change with low ph water
with a pool not much aeration can handle a higher ta
a spa will have a lot of aeration
TFP is a knowledgeable approach ignoring "this is what everyone else does"
a higher ta makes the rise worse
only way it lowers is with acid, or water change with low ph water
with a pool not much aeration can handle a higher ta
a spa will have a lot of aeration
TFP is a knowledgeable approach ignoring "this is what everyone else does"
Very good to know! No wonder my skin feels like an itchy sun burn. So after balancing my water I need to keep up on not only FC between each use but also adding acid between every use it sounds.
I finally figured out PoolMath yay, this will help me a lot.
I feel like I should drain my tub again and do a refill, I used the water softener last time and added garden hose water to raise the CH. I will probably be fine with using 100% garden hose aka unsoftened water. I will check my tap CH again hopefully it comes in under 150.
What does an alkalinity of 50 do to your CSI?
I see. Couple things. First, you'll need to realize we ignore what manufacturers say in some regards. Second, you can skip the balancing wheel, because PoolMath does that for you. Third, relax, it isn't hard, just have to learn a couple things then it's easy.
QUOTE=pinkfloydeffect;1370152]
Good to know. So when aeration brings the pH up is that only for that session or does it continue to rise each day after use higher and higher? I would assume it will rise to a cap for that session only then fall after use?
I only read once here to keep Alkalinity at 50, everywhere else including my manual, test kits, Google, chemical bottles, all say 80-160ppm.[/QUOTE]
My own experience is still limited. I don't use a lot of aeration, because my inflatable tub only has bubbles but no jets, so it's pointless. It is good for aeration though, if needed. So I started off around ~250 TA (alkalinity), and brought it down with acid/aeration. Out of the tap, I had a pH of 7.3. After 30 minutes of aeration, it was over 8. I would add acid, it would drop down into the low 7's, and 30 minutes of aeration would bring it back over 8 again. Once I got the TA down to about 50, this stopped. Actually I overshot and had a TA of around 40, and aeration wasn't bringing it back up past 7-7.1, so I added some washing soda (baking soda would have worked) and aeration to get it up to 7.4. It dropped later, probably from dichlor, down to 7 again, and I was able to bring it back to 7.3-7.4 with aeration alone. Seems to be pretty stable around 7.3 right now, though again I don't have much aeration.
Perhaps. You should check your pH often, perhaps before and after each use, while you get things settled. Once you get closer to a TA of 50 I imagine your pH rise should go way down, and make adding acid less needed.
I did suggest that in your previous thread.
Again, ignore the manufacturer here. Target is roughly a minimum of 150 ppm according to the sticky. Mine is roughly 275 ppm. If your tap water is 150, or 250, that's fine, use it.This is one of the nice things of PoolMath, it answers these sorts of questions. There's two columns, a "Now" and a "Target" column. Do a water test and fill in all the values in the "Now" column. FC, pH, TA, CH, CYA, Salt, Borate. (If you don't add salt, just put that to 0, and same for borates). Fill out the values in the "Target" column. This does two things. First, and most obvious, it tells you how to adjust a specific item by adding "x". But secondly, look back at the CSI. Note it has two values, the same "Now" and "Target" values everything else does. These are calculated from all the various "Now" and "Target" values you've filled out. Want to get a specific CSI? Play around with the various "Target" values for stuff and see what the CSI would be for that combination. Don't for get to add temp, since that makes a difference. And since you have a fiberglass spa, as has been mentioned, anything between -0.6 and 0.6 is fine. (I think mine's been around -0.4 to -0.3)