Alkalinity and PH problems

About 4oz is correct to get a 4.5ppm rise if using 5-6% bleach.
Using dedicated pool chlorine that is 10-12% strength you will use less to acheive the same ppm as it’s twice as potent.

Clorox w/ Cloromax is a no go.
Some store brands also will say they have “fabric protection” so steer clear of that. Its also polymers- they cause foaming.

Not sure what’s available where you are. But aldi sells plain bleach & the chloralen brand plain is also fine to use.
Unadulterated household bleach is just harder to find these days which is why dedicated pool chlorine is recommended.

A spa is essentially a communal bathtub that keeps the same water for months. So There is a high fc demand that must be met or nasties will grow quickly. It is it’s own ecosystem that needs proper sanitizer levels to keep the funky stuff at bay.
The bather load is comparable to having a frat party in your 20k gal pool every time you use it.
Yes, you need to test every day even if you don’t use it so you can get a better understanding of your standby fc needs & can dose accordingly with confidence.
Once you gather some data you’ll be able to wing it a little more.

Every tub’s standby fc loss looks different because there are sooo many variables (frequency of use/bather loads/ tds/ temperature/ biofilms) - mine won’t be the same as yours.

My tub is half the size of yours, this means my bather load is higher but my volume of liquid chlorine used each dose is less.
i use a salt water chlorine generator for my standby chlorination & I generally dose to around 6-10ppm after use depending upon how the tub was used. (How dirty were the people/how many people)
My tub is then maintained at about 5/6ppm fc all the time w/ the swcg so that’s where I generally begin my soaks. If its more than 1 person or I go longer than 30/40 minutes alone I add more chlorine back up to 6ppm to prevent falling below minimum for my cya of 30 before I am done. Then I dose again when I get out if needed. If its a teen get together I raise to 10ppm before anyone gets in as 3 or 4 teenagers can make the fc drop 4ppm or more in my tiny tub in just a few minutes.
I make them take a break & add some liquid chlorine every 30 minutes or so in those instances. Especially if sunscreen is involved + teen girls with all their hair/skin products!

The main thing is keep fc above minimum at all times - whatever it takes to accomplish that in your tub.
Most average users (1-2 people for 30 minutes) , who manually chlorinate, can dose to near slam level after use & return the following day to high enough fc to allow them to use the tub for a reasonable amount of time and then repeat the process afterwards without fc falling too low.

In my tub, when manually dosing, I have found that raising fc to slam level buys me 6-7 days of standby time before broaching minimum.

it is safe for people & equipment/surfaces for fc to be anywhere between minimum and slam level for your cya.

Hope this helps 😊
 
Perfect,you answered all my questions. I am still using dichlor and the recommendation was .4 oz . In your first sentence you said 4 oz of bleach 5-6%. Im guessing my CYA will be over 30 ppm tommorrow and then I will start with bleach. I need to look for a video on using the daily PH and FC using TF pro kit. I can only get a good reading when using the test sample water, but cannot get a conclusive reading for PH or FC with spa water. With my close up vision not being great I had my wife do it and she said the same thing. Thanks again for your help.
 
Thank you for the video link. I will look at it this afternoon. I guess the fas/dpd test is the same as chlorine drop test ? If so that works for me and my readings were FC 4 ppm and CC.5 ppm. Right now PH seems to be a guess is the daily test comparator block. Video should help me with that . Thanks ,Bret
 
I couldnt wait , I had to look at the videos now lol. I did everthing right but im not getting a good useable test reading with the OTO 100 test . None of the PH colors are really close to matching the water sample. I will try again ,Thanks
 
Fas/dpd is the one you use the vial & powder & drops (turns pink)
Measures fc (good stuff)
&
cc (bad stuff) separately

The ph test is the red side of the comparator block - uses phenol red drops 👍🏻
Holding it up against a white background in good lighting is helpful to distinguish the colors.
I use the white background on my phone’s browser!
Ph of Anywhere in the 7’s is fine so no need to adjust unless it’s 8 or darker anyway.
Some find adding an extra drop helps make out the color better. Ymmv.


The yellow side of the comparator is the OTO test (measures total chlorine)
fc+cc = TC - we want to know them separately so its not that helpful of a test other than to show you have some kind of chlorine in the water. It also only goes to 5. Its ok for quick checks here & there but not super accurate.
 
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Thanks I will try an extra drop for PH test. I did use a white back drop and different sources of light. All of the yellows look the same. I will use the other test for Chlorine .
It can help with the pH test to use something to cover the FRONT of the comparator block as well. The slowly slide it down until the color is the closest. It makes it a little easier to discern between the color comparisons.
 
Thanks phonedave. I will give that a try tommorrow . I tried with some sunlite and artificial light with and without a white backround. The color is orange so I added some PH down to make sure it wasnt above 8.0 PH. All of my other tests are fine. Bret
 
Hi all. Im still having a hard time reading the PH color. I did add 2 tsp of muriatic acid and retested the next day. Seems like its close to 7.5 PH now allthough the color is a darker orange than 7.5 but close enough I guess. Odd thing is if I test my tap water with Nuetra 7 system on my water reads 7.0 matching the color perfectly. I am also still using dichlor as my CYA hasnt got over 30 ppm yet ,its about 28 or so. I have read here that CYA above 20 ppm should be OK ? If so I will switch over to liquid bleach today. I have also read that I should shock to 12ppm FC one time per week, is that a good recommendation ? I am also using AQUA Clarity and my water is crystal clear and I no longer have the light tan build up on the spa shell that I was getting before. I am also using metal magic and it seems the light tan build up was in the filter this time and it washed right off. Thanks to all for helping me get through this water balance/sanitation issue I have had for the last three months.
 

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Hi all. Im still having a hard time reading the PH color. I did add 2 tsp of muriatic acid and retested the next day. Seems like its close to 7.5 PH now allthough the color is a darker orange than 7.5 but close enough I guess. Odd thing is if I test my tap water with Nuetra 7 system on my water reads 7.0 matching the color perfectly. I am also still using dichlor as my CYA hasnt got over 30 ppm yet ,its about 28 or so. I have read here that CYA above 20 ppm should be OK ? If so I will switch over to liquid bleach today. I have also read that I should shock to 12ppm FC one time per week, is that a good recommendation ? I am also using AQUA Clarity and my water is crystal clear and I no longer have the light tan build up on the spa shell that I was getting before. I am also using metal magic and it seems the light tan build up was in the filter this time and it washed right off. Thanks to all for helping me get through this water balance/sanitation issue I have had for the last three months.
Over 20 should be fine. I usually like to start somewhere between 30 and 40 though since CYA does dissipate over time so it gives me an extra month or so before I have to test it again. I only bring FC up to slam levels if I am sensing a problem (higher than normal CD or any foam). Especially if your are doing a weekly AC maintenance dose, there really shouldn't be any need to hit it that hard on a regular basis.
 
I don’t raise to slam just because of some arbitrary schedule. If you maintain adequate fc all the time you really shouldn’t need to do this. Its also like trying to make up for Tuesday on Friday. We don’t really recommend relying on that because what about Wednesday & Thursday lol.
I do however elevate my fc to account for anticipated fc needs & bather waste etc. This sometimes may end up being slam fc level but its based on use & need, not a predetermined schedule just because.
Same goes for my pool.
 
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Thanks mdragger88 ,I thought i would be ok . Do you ever use any chlorinated or non chlorinated shock or just maintain the FC levels ?
If you’re referring to a product- Chlorinated “shock” is just chlorine- either dichlor, trichlor, cal hypochlorite or sodium hypochlorite (bleach) with the word shock on the label. So yes, i use sodium hypochlorite & dichlor for my chlorination needs.
Here at TFP the word “shock” is a verb, not a product. Meaning to raise fc to shock/slam level for your cya.
If this is what you mean then yes, I may occasionally raise my fc to shock level for the reasons I outlined in the above post in order to maintain adequate fc levels depending upon how the tub is used. Or if my cc’s are elevated/there’s a problem.
Or maybe i am not understanding your question?

I have never used or had the need to use MPS (non chlorinated shock)
Nor do I ever intend to.
Chlorine has always been sufficient.
Mps has quite a few cons that I don’t care for:
*It is only an oxidizer- chlorine is both an oxidizer & a sanitizer so why not just use chlorine.
*It can read as cc’s when testing unless you use the specific interference reagent. This can last for an unspecified amount of time.
Knowing your cc’s accurately is an important indicator of a spa’s water health
*It contains sulfates- these can damage your heater & salt cell.
*It is acidic & can rock the boat w/ ph & ta which is a pain if you have everything nicely dialed in.
* it is not listed in poolmath effects of adding & I don’t add things to my pool or spa that I can’t test for or know the expected outcome for on my parameters.
 
Thanks Mdragger88 ! You just explained it perfectly for me to understand. I read about it in Pool School and got confused, which doesnt take much at my age LOL. I even went out and bought some but havent used it. Person on pool school used MPS weekly I believe. Thanks again ,you got me straightened out ! correction -MPS ,it wasnt in pool school it was in how to use chlorine in my spa. To use before high useage and weekly
 
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Thanks Mdragger88 ! You just explained it perfectly for me to understand. I read about it in Pool School and got confused, which doesnt take much at my age LOL. I even went out and bought some but havent used it. Person on pool school used MPS weekly I believe. Thanks again ,you got me straightened out ! correction -MPS ,it wasnt in pool school it was in how to use chlorine in my spa. To use before high useage and weekly
Yes - that tutorial thread is quite old and since then most here have found that they don’t have much need to use mps nor shock on a schedule.

Some bromine users choose to use mps as their “activator” & also to do regimented weekly shocks but it really just depends on how you use the tub.

For most it’s really not worth messing with mps if you have chlorine in hand. Keep it simple.
One less thing- as Forrest Gump says.
 
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Only way my PH will comes down is when my TA is in mid 30's or lower
Me too - If I want my pH to be below 8 then my TA will be below 50. If I add baking soda to increase TA then pH goes above 8. I add some MA to bring down pH and TA drops down to 30-40. But everything seems fine like that. And I have seen many threads both here and other places of people noting the same issue.
 

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