Advice on new Gas Heater Pentair, Hayward, Other?

[ajw22]

I guess what I'm really asking is why would anyone NOT get the low nox? They appear to be smaller, cheaper, and have the same output in addition to less gas emissions. Are they less reliable? More points of failure?

Looks to me like the same heater low nox model is about $200 more expensive. Raypak 009219 Digital Natural Gas 399,000 BTU Pool Heater - $2,349 vs Raypak 009243 Digital Low NOx Natural Gas 399,000 BTU Pool Heater - $2,562. 9% more expensive. And if replacing an existing Raypak youw ant a model that best fits existing plumbing.

 

[uwsublime]

Looks to me like the same heater low nox model is about $200 more expensive. Raypak 009219 Digital Natural Gas 399,000 BTU Pool Heater - $2,349 vs Raypak 009243 Digital Low NOx Natural Gas 399,000 BTU Pool Heater - $2,562. 9% more expensive. And if replacing an existing Raypak youw ant a model that best fits existing plumbing.

I've settled on the 266k model as it fits my space better. I haven't exhausted my searching yet, but I found the Low-Nox for $1725 vs. $1809 for the regular. I am still going to try to find a lower price. As far as my plumbing goes, there is no modern heater that fits it, and I'm going to have to reroute a lot of things. The 3" width savings on the 266k vs the 336k model will help me do that.

 

[Effers]

Chiming in late.... I love the Raypak heaters, currently own a 406A natural gas unit. Easy to use, fires up within 5-10 seconds and gets to temp quick. I do not know much about the LOW-NOX systems sorry.
However a general note of caution. My first Raypak was installed back in 2006. Worked great and was very happy but I was a bad pool owner and didn't monitor my chemicals levels. My failure to check/maintain my PH cost me $1,800. I got 10 years out of the unit but I am certain it would have lasted longer if I was pool smart back then. I won't make that same mistake twice.

 

[uwsublime]

Just found the 266A for $1530, so maybe those Low-Nox do cost more... Still searching.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I have a standard copper heat exchanger in my MasterTemp 400 that’s 6 years old. Still going strong. Cupronickel is certainly an option you can choose but one of our heater experts who actually installs and services heaters (@ps0303 ) has said many times that he sees no practical difference between the two in terms of service life. Failed heaters fail mainly for one reason - pool owner neglect. Let the chemistry get out of whack, and you’re asking for equipment failure. So you can spend the extra money on the cupronickel but it will unlikely be the deciding factor in the longevity of your heater choice.

Do note the difference in makers - Pentair/Hayward unit’s are forced-air combustion chambers whereas Raypak is more of the traditional flame tray heater. The Raypak’s have fewer components to replace and are cheaper to service but you do have to be careful with how you install and setup the vent pipe. We’ve had a number of posts lately of people who keep blowing out the flame roll-out fuse because high winds cause backdraft on the exhaust tube.

 

[uwsublime]

I have a standard copper heat exchanger in my MasterTemp 400 that’s 6 years old. Still going strong. Cupronickel is certainly an option you can choose but one of our heater experts who actually installs and services heaters (@ps0303 ) has said many times that he sees no practical difference between the two in terms of service life. Failed heaters fail mainly for one reason - pool owner neglect. Let the chemistry get out of whack, and you’re asking for equipment failure. So you can spend the extra money on the cupronickel but it will unlikely be the deciding factor in the longevity of your heater choice.

Do note the difference in makers - Pentair/Hayward unit’s are forced-air combustion chambers whereas Raypak is more of the traditional flame tray heater. The Raypak’s have fewer components to replace and are cheaper to service but you do have to be careful with how you install and setup the vent pipe. We’ve had a number of posts lately of people who keep blowing out the flame roll-out fuse because high winds cause backdraft on the exhaust tube.

Thank you for the information. With the Raypak, installed in a pool shed, I assume I need the 'indoor stack' vent kit? It looks like the outdoor is just painted to protect it from the weather. If I get that kit, then run it into another few feet of ducting into a chimney, will I be OK with wind and the flame roll-out fuse? Is there something else I need to do specifically to account for that issue?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thank you for the information. With the Raypak, installed in a pool shed, I assume I need the 'indoor stack' vent kit? It looks like the outdoor is just painted to protect it from the weather. If I get that kit, then run it into another few feet of ducting into a chimney, will I be OK with wind and the flame roll-out fuse? Is there something else I need to do specifically to account for that issue?

If you are installing it in a shed then you definitely need to follow the proper procedures for a chimney install. You should also check local building codes as there are sometimes requirements for how high a chimney must be relative to the roof line.

 

[uwsublime]

If you are installing it in a shed then you definitely need to follow the proper procedures for a chimney install. You should also check local building codes as there are sometimes requirements for how high a chimney must be relative to the roof line.

I've already got a chimney installed per code on my old unit. I'm just wondering if I need to do anything special to account for the 'flame roll-out' fuse issue you mentioned.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I've already got a chimney installed per code on my old unit. I'm just wondering if I need to do anything special to account for the 'flame roll-out' fuse issue you mentioned.

With an indoor installation and chimney, you should be ok. Flame RO sensors usually blow when the Raypak heaters are installed outdoors but near a wall or inside corner. The wind can catch the wall and then blow downwards pushing the flame from the burner tray into the cabinet. Raypak sells an outdoor stack kit for windy environments to help abate downdrafts. They also sell a powered stack kit (small blower fan) to help in situations where a chimney pipe might restrict exhaust flow.

As long as you have the correct diameter chimney pipe and it’s installed per code, I’m sure you won’t see any RO issues.

 

[uwsublime]

With an indoor installation and chimney, you should be ok. Flame RO sensors usually blow when the Raypak heaters are installed outdoors but near a wall or inside corner. The wind can catch the wall and then blow downwards pushing the flame from the burner tray into the cabinet. Raypak sells an outdoor stack kit for windy environments to help abate downdrafts. They also sell a powered stack kit (small blower fan) to help in situations where a chimney pipe might restrict exhaust flow.

As long as you have the correct diameter chimney pipe and it’s installed per code, I’m sure you won’t see any RO issues.

Thanks again! I really appreciate the information.

 

[PTS]

At this point, LoNox is a marketing point. Almost all gas heaters are considered Low Nox these days, and the ones that boast about it are just using that as a marketing ploy to convince people that their system is better. If you call the manufacturers and get them to dig into the engineering side of the equipment, I'd bet that almost all of them would end up giving the same answer - no data available for public consumption. Internal data. No parameter to share. Proprietary information. so on, so forth.