About ready to just fill it in with dirt

[peacefulkancer]

Short Story: I had a house with a SWG pool from 2014-2016. Never had any issues. Moved into new house and nothing but issues and I'm about ready to just empty it and fill it with dirt.

Long Story: It doesn't matter what I do - everything is all over the place. I could have the levels "good" and then two days later they are all bad and the pool is turning into a swamp. I will tear down the filter and put in new DE and the flow is great and then a few hours later it is low flow. I still have this mottling issue - so maybe that is it?

This is precisely what happened today - tore down the filter at 10am and washed it down real good. Then recharged it with DE. It had great pressure coming out of the jets and now at 2pm there is almost no flow (visually and the IC40 reports).

	TF100	Pool Store
FC	5	5
CC	0.5	0.5
pH	7	7
TA	110	97
CH	220	286
CYA	55	55
Salt	1900	1812
Phosphates	-	0

Temp: 82F
Pump: 2100 rpm

At this point I am less concerned about the chemical levels than I am at the pool going from good flow to almost no flow within 4hrs. Filter 10psi started at 10psi and is still at 10psi but the flow is almost nothing now. Do I have a leak and once the pressure gets to a certain point the water flow drops and then I'm no longer filtering and SWG stops? Should I be doing a leak check on my pool? No leaks on pipes above ground. No squishy yard from water spots. Or maybe I should just redo all my pipes?

Yes, I know my TA is a little high, my pH a little low, and CYA a little low at this moment but I don't think this accounts for the flow.

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

You simply have algae, whether you can see of or not. That is what is quickly clogging your filter. Your filter is doing a great job.

The fix is to do a SLAM. SLAM Process



To kill algae you have to kill it all. This can't be done in a one time shock.. You have to bring your water up to the SLAM level and hold it there for several days. If you follow the SLAM directions, your problems will be gone.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[kimkats]

How long have you been at the new place?
How does the water look?
Are there a lot of trees that dumps stuff into the pool?
Is your signature the current pool or old pool?

I also am leaning to the algae but lets make sure we cover everything!

 

[peacefulkancer]

P,

You simply have algae, whether you can see of or not. That is what is quickly clogging your filter. Your filter is doing a great job.

The fix is to do a SLAM. SLAM Process



To kill algae you have to kill it all. This can't be done in a one time shock.. You have to bring your water up to the SLAM level and hold it there for several days. If you follow the SLAM directions, your problems will be gone.

Thanks,

Jim R.

To go from 100% to 0% flow in 4 hours and the pressure gauge on the filter doesn't move? The gauge goes from 0 to 10psi one I start it up. If I raise the rpm then it also raises so gauge seems functional. What am I missing?

How long have you been at the new place?
How does the water look?
Are there a lot of trees that dumps stuff into the pool?
Is your signature the current pool or old pool?

I also am leaning to the algae but lets make sure we cover everything!

I've been here since 2018. Water looks not the best right now because I have no flow. As of right now the palms are not flowering so not a lot in the pool. Signature is current pool.

All of this started when the mottling showed up last year and been fighting it since then. I have wire brushed the areas extensively and it does not come up (regardless of the chemical level at the time).

I've done the SLAM. And this does not clear up the mottling. Water looks fine. OCLT passes. Then within a week it is a swamp again.

 

[mknauss]

Are the filter grids clogged with scale? Have you maintained a proper CSI?

 

[Flying Tivo]

What is your SWG % settings at? and for how many hours? If you are having a flow problem the SWG wont work and Cl will fall below levels and give you an algae break, which in turn clogs the filter. Lets do a SLAM Process and hold it there for a few more days after passing the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test Then you can evaluate if the flow comes down in SLAM mode after you pass the OCLT. That will tell us if its algae or mechanical in nature.

 

[peacefulkancer]

Are the filter grids clogged with scale? Have you maintained a proper CSI?

Last year I bought new filters. Link.

CSI is near impossible to maintain with CH in my area. Maybe I haven't tried hard enough. Lets say I haven't and I have scaled filters - how do I test they are scaled? How do I correct?

What is your SWG % settings at? and for how many hours? If you are having a flow problem the SWG wont work and Cl will fall below levels and give you an algae break, which in turn clogs the filter. Lets do a SLAM Process and hold it there for a few more days after passing the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test Then you can evaluate if the flow comes down in SLAM mode after you pass the OCLT. That will tell us if its algae or mechanical in nature.

I run 9hrs at 70% at 2100rpm. I am aware the SWG wont work if too low flow or if too cold. Regardless of the SWG or not - it makes literally no difference if I run it at zero and only add chlorine.

At this point I'm going to have to get more supplies to do this all over.

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

I still say you have an algae problem but let's look at this logically..

You clean the filter and everything looks good, then 4 hours later the flow drops to zero. If you clean the filter it will just happen again.

A DE filter will easily clog with algae within a few hours.

But let's assume it is something else. What else could clog your filter?? This is not any kind of mechanical issue, it is just an algae issue.

I suggest you forget all about what you have done in the past and pretend you just started working this pool today.

In every case I can remember, when a SLAM failed it was due to the SLAM directions not being followed to the letter. SLAM level not high enough, the FC not kept at or above the SLAM level constantly, CYA much higher than thought, no brushing done or only half heartedly done, etc.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but what other options are there?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mknauss]

CSI is near impossible to maintain with CH in my area.

You must manage your CSI as your CH rises. Then drain and refill about every 2 years once the CH reaches 800 ppm.

Your grids are plugged with something. Likely suspects are algae, or scale.

 

[peacefulkancer]

P,

I still say you have an algae problem but let's look at this logically..

You clean the filter and everything looks good, then 4 hours later the flow drops to zero. If you clean the filter it will just happen again.

A DE filter will easily clog with algae within a few hours.

But let's assume it is something else. What else could clog your filter?? This is not any kind of mechanical issue, it is just an algae issue.

I suggest you forget all about what you have done in the past and pretend you just started working this pool today.

In every case I can remember, when a SLAM failed it was due to the SLAM directions not being followed to the letter. SLAM level not high enough, the FC not kept at or above the SLAM level constantly, CYA much higher than thought, no brushing done or only half heartedly done, etc.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but what other options are there?

Thanks,

Jim R.

I'm just trying to understand the indicators. I though that as a filter clogged up - whether it be dust or algae or DE - the pressure went up? Is this not true?

You must manage your CSI as your CH rises. Then drain and refill about every 2 years once the CH reaches 800 ppm.

Your grids are plugged with something. Likely suspects are algae, or scale.

I am pretty sure I'm nowhere close to 800ppm on the CH.

 

[peacefulkancer]

So here is a softball question - how much DE to charge the filter with. Manual for the Quad DE80 is 8lb (qty 16 of 1lb coffee can). I know the history of the coffee can but this is confusing/inaccurate so lets not use that.

Are we adding a literal 8lbs? So if a 24lb bag is bought then I should use 33% of that bag to recharge. Doesn't matter about how fluffy or compact the media is - one-third of the bag (or literally weigh it out).

And if we add too little then dirt gets stuck in the grids. And if too much is added it clogs too fast. Is that all correct?

 

[PoolStored]

1lb of DE is equal to 2 - 1lb coffee cans. DE is 1/2 as heavy as coffee. Don't compact it or fluff it. Just fill the can like you were putting coffee in and go.

If you don't want to use that, use a postage scale. I have one that I weigh EVERYTHING that I put in my pool (that is added by weight). But I'm known to be "extra."

 

[W.J.Christy]

Short Story: I had a house with a SWG pool from 2014-2016. Never had any issues. Moved into new house and nothing but issues and I'm about ready to just empty it and fill it with dirt.

Long Story: It doesn't matter what I do - everything is all over the place. I could have the levels "good" and then two days later they are all bad and the pool is turning into a swamp. I will tear down the filter and put in new DE and the flow is great and then a few hours later it is low flow. I still have this mottling issue - so maybe that is it?

This is precisely what happened today - tore down the filter at 10am and washed it down real good. Then recharged it with DE. It had great pressure coming out of the jets and now at 2pm there is almost no flow (visually and the IC40 reports).

	TF100	Pool Store
FC	5	5
CC	0.5	0.5
pH	7	7
TA	110	97
CH	220	286
CYA	55	55
Salt	1900	1812
Phosphates	-	0

Temp: 82F
Pump: 2100 rpm

At this point I am less concerned about the chemical levels than I am at the pool going from good flow to almost no flow within 4hrs. Filter 10psi started at 10psi and is still at 10psi but the flow is almost nothing now. Do I have a leak and once the pressure gets to a certain point the water flow drops and then I'm no longer filtering and SWG stops? Should I be doing a leak check on my pool? No leaks on pipes above ground. No squishy yard from water spots. Or maybe I should just redo all my pipes?

Yes, I know my TA is a little high, my pH a little low, and CYA a little low at this moment but I don't think this accounts for the flow.

Maybe its already been discussed or perhaps its a non-issue, but your salt level is half of the ideal range for the IC-40. are all the lights green and is it making chlorine? If its not maybe this could be a contributing factor to the issues and potential alge growth?. Just a shot in the dark....

 

[Kaylee34]

I feel your pain with the DE filter. If I were you, I’d get a new pressure gauge. Yours may not be working correctly.

Had to deep clean my DE filter three times this weekend. It was clogging within 30 minutes at first. Normal startup pressure for me is 20psi. I was hitting 30 psi quickly. My pool is a mess at the moment.

Old bump style so bump and roll til I had to purge. Purge, partial recharge, repeat until purging wasn't working long. Then yank it apart, wash it and put all those bolts back in. I literally did nothing but vacuum the pool and clean the dang filter all weekend.

If you’re clogging in 4 hours, I suspect you need to clean and descale the grids. I used Cascade dishwasher detergent then a 10% solution of ZEP degreaser. Lots of hosing. I don’t have a scale problem so no acid wash.

 

[peacefulkancer]

1lb of DE is equal to 2 - 1lb coffee cans. DE is 1/2 as heavy as coffee. Don't compact it or fluff it. Just fill the can like you were putting coffee in and go.

If you don't want to use that, use a postage scale. I have one that I weigh EVERYTHING that I put in my pool (that is added by weight). But I'm known to be "extra."

So you are literal - if it says 8lbs then you measure out 8lbs.

Maybe its already been discussed or perhaps its a non-issue, but your salt level is half of the ideal range for the IC-40. are all the lights green and is it making chlorine? If its not maybe this could be a contributing factor to the issues and potential alge growth?. Just a shot in the dark....

Yes, the salt level is low. I have held off adding salt as I didn't want to add salt then turn around in a week to filling the pool with dirt. I do have it on hand to add once I get this figured out.

I feel your pain with the DE filter. If I were you, I’d get a new pressure gauge. Yours may not be working correctly.

Had to deep clean my DE filter three times this weekend. It was clogging within 30 minutes at first. Normal startup pressure for me is 20psi. I was hitting 30 psi quickly. My pool is a mess at the moment.

Old bump style so bump and roll til I had to purge. Purge, partial recharge, repeat until purging wasn't working long. Then yank it apart, wash it and put all those bolts back in. I literally did nothing but vacuum the pool and clean the dang filter all weekend.

If you’re clogging in 4 hours, I suspect you need to clean and descale the grids. I used Cascade dishwasher detergent then a 10% solution of ZEP degreaser. Lots of hosing. I don’t have a scale problem so no acid wash.

I think it is OK as the pressure goes up if I increase the pump's RPM. But who knows - maybe it is broken. What are the different methods for descaling a filter?

Also, side-note. I'm going to order more testing chemicals too. Last refill was last year - so may as well make sure I'm reading the correct numbers.

 

[PoolStored]

So you are literal - if it says 8lbs then you measure out 8lbs.

Literally.

 

[Kaylee34]

What are the different methods for descaling a filter?

There’s an excellent write up for cleaning DE filters in pool school. I’m not savvy enough to link to it for you on my phone.

To descale it you want to soak in a muratic acid solution. I believe 10% but check the article or someone will correct me. You’ll know scale if you see it. Hard flaky stuff.

If you have grids, you’ll need to take them apart. If you’ve got the finger nest, you can do it in a 5 gallon bucket.

Cascade dishwasher detergent I just dumped some in the bucket of water and stirred until the water wouldn’t take any more.

ZEP degreaser was at 25%.

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

There is no doubt that grids that have a lot of scale will clog faster, but... if there is nothing for the grids to catch it won't cause them to fill up in a few hours.

I have no idea why the pressure gauge is not going up, as that would normally happen, but pressure increase or not the water flow is stopping.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TexEdmond]

That sucks you're frustrated with the pool. I was talking to my neighbor yesterday and we're both grateful to be on cartridge filters... worse comes to worst, throw em in the garbage and buy new ones...

I am pretty sure I'm nowhere close to 800ppm on the CH.

I don't think that was Marty's point. After a certain CH level is exceeded, it's basically impossible to have a CSI number that won't constantly be adding scale to anything and everything the pool water touches. But even if your CH numbers are half that, if your CSI numbers are in the neighborhood of +0.3 or higher for a long time, scale will form.

It seems like that's the blessing and curse of DE filters... they're very efficient at filtering loads of stuff out of the water, but they also are very efficient at filtering loads of stuff out of the water.

 

[peacefulkancer]

So initial findings.

1. Probably been adding closer to 12lbs than 8lbs of DE. I weighed it out in the past but apparently something changed. I have a hanging scale coming and will weigh it out from here on out for better precision.
2. Replaced the original pressure gauge with a new gauge that has finer increments (0-35psi). Same results/readings so I don't think that the valve itself was bad.
3. The Pentair Multi-Port Valve 261050 has a bad o-ring so there is leak-by between the different compartments. Cannot simply change the o-ring as the o-ring is melted to the body of the valve. This is probably due to being in Arizona and it being hot.
   1. This may explain why the gauge doesn't move at times. When the filter is clean it goes through the filter as the resistance is low. When filter gets % clogged then the water takes the path of least resistance which is through the valve itself. This drops the flow and also stops filtering which is why I've seen a clean pool quickly go to a swamp. If anyone has any experience on this let me know as I don't really want to have to redo all my piping.
   2. If I have to rebuild I think I am going to go with a slide valve (261165/263034) as that is what I had previously and those o-rings seem way more rebuild friendly.
4. I don't see scale on the filters - but currently doing the dish-soap and MA cleaning on them (probably will only do a truncated MA clean, not the full 3hr)
5. While the water is generally clear right now during SLAMming... it still has the black "mottling" on the walls. I've scrubbed the heck out of them with wire brushes and nothing comes off so I'm not sure if this is some very stubborn black algae or actual mottling or something else. Original post here, but now these black areas cover more of the pool surface.

EDIT: So I got in and grabbed a wire brush and swam down and scrubbed the areas. With a ton of effort I was able to scrub off areas. Areas are waxy-slippery feeling so I am 99% sure it is black algae. So now not sure if I should just acid wash or just have a long hard road with a lot of scrubbing and chemicals. A lot of the surface is affected.