AA treatment questions

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Based on my math, and previous utility bills when we first bought the house, the old motor cost me $5/day or $.208/hr. The new motor should use $4.01/day or $.167/hr on high and $1.45/day or $.061/hr on low. On high it's 20% more efficient, and on low it's almost 71% more efficient. Do solar panels usually work on low speed? Or does the controller use high speed to prime, then run on low? I've got 6 4x10' panels lined up for next week.


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Nice math! The answer to that is a big depends. It is possible that it will work on low. You can definitely run on low and have the controller kick it to high with a relay. I would try it on low and just have the valve open to see how it does.
 
It only shows about 2 psi on the filter gauge. It's still stronger at the returns than the surface makes it seem. It's just calm and ripply. Maybe it would have enough oomph. I wouldn't bet on it. The solar line will actually drop a little from the pump, then go to the 9/12 pitch 2 story cathedral roof. Not gonna be a fun install.


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It will keep metal from precipitating out until it stops and you have to add more. It doesn't last forever, it gets consumed by chlorine and releases the metal back into the water. Once the stains start to return you have to add more sequestrant and it should lift the stains again.
 
That is what they say, that a fresh dose of sequestrant will usually lift the stains. But they also say to add it as soon as the stains start to reappear. So, I think you might need the AA since the stains may have been there for a while.
 
One more question. I did the AA treatment, and all the stains lifted. I then added 3.5 quarts of metal magic. All was well for 7-10 days then I started seeing staining coming back on the steps and plastic return fittings. I added some more metal magic and it went away for a few days. Then I added more metal magic. I've gone through all five bottles that I bought. I didn't put my old ladder in this year, so I've eliminated that source of metal. I bought a new ladder and put it in two days ago. My pool light is the last remaining culprit for metal getting in the water. It has some corrosion on the back of it from the previous owner's granular shock. How much metal magic should it take to keep the stains away? My ph has been 7.2 since the AA treatment, and FC has been 3-4. CYA is about 40. I have more to add to get it back up where it needs to be. I've used five bottles in three weeks, and the stains started coming back yesterday. When I put the ladder in two days ago I didn't notice any staining. My wife being more frugal than I am suggested just dumping and refilling instead of spending more money on sequestrant. I told her we can't do that, but we could do multiple partial drains. I suggested taking the light out and patching where it was to eliminate a source of metal. She's in favor of just replacing the light during a partial drain. Any opinions on any of this? Would several partial drains remove enough metal to get this manageable?
 

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Hi there. Youre not on well, are you? My advice is different if you are.

First off, I love metal magic, and found it very effective and cheaper than jacks in a regular chlorine pool.

However, you are swg, right?

I just changed to SWG this year, and did quite a bit of research, and called both jacks and metal magic, both which have great techs.

I have independently concluded that I'm more comfortable now in an swg environment using Jacks Purple, which is specifically formulated for swg and to work in the high TDS that is saltwater - and to clean the cell while it works.

My reasoning, however errant, is that Jacks Pink says it does not work in high TDS, and that metal magic has approximately the same value of HEDP. Mm does not say it does not work in high TDS, but I remain unclear what's in the formulation that would prove contrary.

I may find that my thinking is both incomplete or incorrect, so consider my comments accordingly ;) For example, MM worked perfectly in my high TDS, high salt pool before it was swg, and I don't know that it wouldn't work now ;)

As a testament to Metal Magic in a non-swg pool, I will say that once I'd switched to MM and dosed according to the sponge test and then maintained, I never opened to stain. But I would add a quart at closing.

In your shoes, two things will help:

1. Testing, to get an idea of what kind f ppm you're dealin with...dilution, if possible, may be in order.
2. Try a bottle of jacks purple and see if the effects last any longer than MM did. If it does, it would suggest an efficacy/TDS relationship, which it would be neat to gather some at least anecdotal sense of ;)

Also make sure your swg is correctly bonded -- if its not, my understanding is that this can exacerbate staining. Trace amounts of iron can also build up from the salt itself...which is why several people I've talked to recommend a metal control product as necessary on swg. I'm in no position to evaluate the solidity of this recc as I am on well nd regardless will get trace iron.

To switch to swg, I only had to add 2 bags of salt...my iron reading did increase from .3 to .4 but dilution and top up play into the variances so I couldn't say I was the salt.
 
pabeader said:
swampwoman for the win.
Click to expand...

No kidding! Great post!

Yes swampwoman I have a swg. I'm on city water, so hopefully that rules it out, but I'll have it tested to make sure. When I talked to the lady that owns the pool store, she said my area doesn't typically have iron problems. I went with the metal magic because it was cheaper, and everyone raves about it. I wonder if I have so much iron that it can't sequester all of it. Surely it's not high enough that 5 bottles wouldn't take care of it! If there's no iron in my tap water, then I'd be interested to see how much could've come from my ladder and light. Also possibly from the salt like you said. Btw, I just ordered a new aqualumin iii for $167, so I'll be taking that out of the equation soon.
 
That's part of what confused me about the stains recurring. The ph has remained low, and the chlorine hasn't been above 4. If either of them had gotten higher I would've expected to see some staining. I wonder if a swg breaks down the metal magic faster than just chlorine alone. After x days there is enough water turnover for the cell to destroy enough of the sequestrant to release the metal. Maybe swampwoman is on to something about the jack's purple. I may have to order a bottle and see if it works better than the metal magic in my pool.


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I had some pretty bad metal staining on my liner that I started noticing in the 2014 and 2015 pool seasons. So I decided to tackle the problem last fall. I was all set to do the AA treatment when I stumbled upon swampwoman's post on how she was able to clear her stains up just by using MM (a lot easier than AA treatment in my opinion). Anyways, I did the sponge test and proceeded to put 5 quarts of MM in my pool about 2 weeks before closing the pool last September and the stains were 100% gone in a day or two. I did have to deal with milky/cloudy water for a few days, but I guess that was expected. Other than that, the process was easy and it worked.

The good news is that when I opened last weekend, there were no stains. So now I will continue to do the maintenance dose of MM (3oz per 10K gal per week) this season. For my pool, that comes out to about 1 bottle of MM per month. I will prbably put a whole bottle in at closing as well. So, for the cost of 5 bottles (about $85), I hope to have a stain free liner this year.

If you are interested, here is the link that describes my treatment last fall.
Removing Metal Stains with MM
 
Remind me about this sponge test. I've read that somewhere, but I don't remember what it entails. The AA did great as far as removing the stains. I just wish the metal magic would do its job. The ph is another thing that was/is puzzling. You lower the ph before the AA treatment, but metal magic says you need 7.7-7.8. Maybe that's just because it's gonna drop it down. But you're supposed to keep the ph lower so the metals don't precipitate out. Does it really need to be higher or lower? Everybody says lower except metal magic.


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The sponge test is where you soak a sponge with MM. Then you place the sponge over a sample stain in your pool. The time that it takes for the stain to disappear is supposed to determine the amount of MM you would need to clear the stains. I think the details can be found on the ProTeam website. In my case, the sponge test took 15 minutes to remove the stain, indicating a dosage of 5 bottles for my 24K gal pool.

As for the pH, i followed the MM instructions and brought it to 7.7 before the dosage. I also lowered the FC to about 2.0. The dosage I used brought the pH down to 6.8, so I 'm guessing that's the reason you want to start at around 7.7 or so when using MM.

I'm guessing that the reason I didn't get staining over the winter was due to the fact that I dumped 5 quarts of MM into the pool 2 weeks before closing. Just a guess.
 

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