A&A leafVac - leaf and debris collector broken

[krishmk]

It might be wise to get a member familiar with the A&A in floor cleaning system to see if the leaf trap is necessary. I suspect it is to collect leaves that are blown to the main drain by the in floor system. And that the main drain covers have slots in them that leaves can make it through. I also suspect this pool is old enough that the main drains are NOT VGBA standard.

@proavia -- can you review?

@proavia - Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am from Chandler, AZ too and my pool is 20+ years old with A&A stuff, and old ST1102 pump. They are all due for a remake but hard to find anyone to work on the pool, labor shortage and too many of them remodeling/resurfacing the pools.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

In the future, when you have all that scorched PVC cut back to the ground and replaced, make sure whoever does the rework - (A) does not use cheap PVC ball valves anywhere (they are not serviceable), and (B) spray paints the above ground PVC pipe. Painting the PVC protects it from UV embrittlement.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I am only speaking from my experience of my system, but I cannot see how the leaf cannister would be required except in a high leaf debris load area. If you don't have a lot of leaves, then the leaf cannister would serve little purpose. The leaf cannister is approximately 2x the size of a standard pump strainer basket, so requires less emptying than the pump basket alone, in a high leaf debris area.

@krishmk, you may reach out to A&A directly, as they are located in Phoenix.

Phone1-800-851-8492
Corporate Offices3750 West Indian School Road Phoenix, Arizona 85019
Office Hours:Design & Customer Service: 6am to 4pm Monday-Friday Will Call: 6 am to 2:30 pm M-F

--Jeff

 

[proavia]

Is the leafvac absolutely needed? - No, but you will be emptying the pump basket more frequently than you emptied the leafvac. You would be surprised how much debris the leafvac captures. Egen though I don't have a heavy leaf load, anything that settles to the bottom of the pool will eventually get captured by the leafvac.

The one shown in your pic is the original design. It's the one I have too. The newer version is made out of a different material that should hold up better. The internal net has been replaced with a deep basket. A fully replafement unit is a little over $200

My guess is your pool was built by Shasta as they tended to use that gold colored paint that is mostly worn off your pipes and equipment.

Heed Matt's advice about not using cheap ball valves in the plumbing. For the 1.5" and larger lines, use Jandy valves. For the 3/4" aerator and dek-chlor (inline puck chlorinator), use a good quality double-union ball valve - as they require no cutting/gluing to replace them. And also his suggestion to paint all the above PVC piping (and repaint every few years as needed) - a couple rattle cans of Krylon is cheap insurance. No need to paint the black Jandy valves or your particular Hayward sand filter vessel.

 

[krishmk]

Is the leafvac absolutely needed? - No, but you will be emptying the pump basket more frequently than you emptied the leafvac. You would be surprised how much debris the leafvac captures. Egen though I don't have a heavy leaf load, anything that settles to the bottom of the pool will eventually get captured by the leafvac.

The one shown in your pic is the original design. It's the one I have too. The newer version is made out of a different material that should hold up better. The internal net has been replaced with a deep basket. A fully replafement unit is a little over $200

My guess is your pool was built by Shasta as they tended to use that gold colored paint that is mostly worn off your pipes and equipment.

Heed Matt's advice about not using cheap ball valves in the plumbing. For the 1.5" and larger lines, use Jandy valves. For the 3/4" aerator and dek-chlor (inline puck chlorinator), use a good quality double-union ball valve - as they require no cutting/gluing to replace them. And also his suggestion to paint all the above PVC piping (and repaint every few years as needed) - a couple rattle cans of Krylon is cheap insurance. No need to paint the black Jandy valves or your particular Hayward sand filter vessel.

Thanks for chiming in and you are right, it is Shasta pools, pool equipment from when the pool was built along with the house in 2001.
I am going to put the leaf vac to my Barracuda vacuum, remove the current broken leafvac and run the straight line (almost straight) to the Jandy valve from the pool vacuum. If I am seeing a lot of debris/leaves in the pool side basket, then I revisit buying the new/improved A&A leafvac collector and redo the piping as needed at that time.

I do have a neighbor who has tons of trees and clean my pool from leaves quite often and that worries me without a leafvac, like the original design has it now.

 

[proavia]

Just reread your signature and see that your infloor really isn't working. Does your pool have separate returns? Where does the pipe between the water feature valve and the infloor water valve lead to? If it's to wall returns, use those and not the infloor returns. That along with a leaf canister on your Barracuda should work without the leafvac.

 

[krishmk]

Just reread your signature and see that your infloor really isn't working. Does your pool have separate returns? Where does the pipe between the water feature valve and the infloor water valve lead to? If it's to wall returns, use those and not the infloor returns. That along with a leaf canister on your Barracuda should work without the leafvac.

I got this house 7+ years ago and still confused with all the pipes that are around the pool.

There are two connectors to the Jandy valve and I know the Jandy valve controls the suction of vacuum, and that is how I control the vacuum speed.

Then in the back row, I have Aerator, the water feature, the dek color and I know they are into pool from after sand filter and I know where they come into the pool

There is also another big pipe with broken connector/valve that I have no clue what that is for... probably inlet to pool?? Then next to that I have the pop up jet mechanism (6 popups), with gears and that is current stopped/not working. So I used Baracuda to clean the pool.

I still cant figure out why the two pipes from Jandy valve next to the leafvac are going, I know one controls the vacuum speed, which means suction from pool pump into filter, but not sure of the other...

Two un resolved pipes... 1 of the two connected to Jandy vavle next to leafvac, and the big pipe between water feature and popup jet mechanism.

 

[proavia]

Where exactly do you attach your Barracuda - skimmer or dedicated vac port in pool wall?
Normally, on the suction side (Jandy valve at leafvac), one pipe is to the skimmer and the other is to the main drain (bottom drain).

Since you said the infloor isn't working - does water flow thru the water valve? Are there any ports/return lines in the pool walls? Does any water come out of these? In my mind, the tee of the unknown pipe and the water valve pipe should have a three way Jandy valge installed - but you need to figure out what that unknown pipe is for first.

 

[krishmk]

Where exactly do you attach your Barracuda - skimmer or dedicated vac port in pool wall?
Normally, on the suction side (Jandy valve at leafvac), one pipe is to the skimmer and the other is to the main drain (bottom drain).

Since you said the infloor isn't working - does water flow thru the water valve? Are there any ports/return lines in the pool walls? Does any water come out of these? In my mind, the tee of the unknown pipe and the water valve pipe should have a three way Jandy valge installed - but you need to figure out what that unknown pipe is for first.

Barracuda is attached to the a vac port in the pool wall under the skimmer basket. The way I see it, three way Jandy valve in the pic is for, 1 draw from pool, 1 for dedicated vac port and the third to inlet to the pool pump.

In my pool, I see two drains and I have to believe one is connected to my Jandy valve, while the other is connected to the pipe that is between water feature and jets mechanism. How else would the fresh water from filter come into the pool right? Just an assumption...

 

[proavia]

Suction side - usually, a port right under the skimmer is an equalizer line. When you increase suction to the Barracuda, does the skimmer flow also increase? If you turn the Jandy valve to stop the Barracuda, does the flow increase or decrease to the skimmer?
Look in the skimmer under the basket (with pump off), is there a skimmer float valve (Whats a Skimmer Float Valve and Why Does a Pool Need it?) there?

The two drains in the pool bottom are actually plumbed together and only one suction line results. This line either is plumbed to the skimmer or to the equipment pad. This is so if one drain is blocked, the other still pulls water. This is to prevent entrapment.

The unknown pipe is some type of return line. It returns water to the pool. Are there any additional unidentified pipes in the pool walls?

 

[krishmk]

Suction side - usually, a port right under the skimmer is an equalizer line. When you increase suction to the Barracuda, does the skimmer flow also increase? If you turn the Jandy valve to stop the Barracuda, does the flow increase or decrease to the skimmer?

When the Barracude is stopped, the skimmer flow definitely stops as well. and when the Barracuda is running fast, the skimmer flow decreases. Seems like both are sharing the same line....

Look in the skimmer under the basket (with pump off), is there a skimmer float valve (Whats a Skimmer Float Valve and Why Does a Pool Need it?) there?

I do not see a float valve and it shows the first pic with two holes in the link above.

The two drains in the pool bottom are actually plumbed together and only one suction line results. This line either is plumbed to the skimmer or to the equipment pad. This is so if one drain is blocked, the other still pulls water. This is to prevent entrapment.

That makes sense... having both drains connected ... not sure where they are connected to...

The unknown pipe is some type of return line. It returns water to the pool. Are there any additional unidentified pipes in the pool walls?

I do not see any more pipes in the pool wall. Just a mystery and I cant deduct until I remove the leafvac and connect the pipe from Jandy to the pump inlet. I should have paid attention on what/how that unknown pipe works.. when working why break it was my thought and never bothered to think on that before :-(

 

[mknauss]

The two drains in the pool bottom are actually plumbed together and only one suction line results.

Maybe. The pool was built in 2001, well before VGBA requirements. Unless it was remodeled since 2008 and the drains added.

 

[krishmk]

I think I figured out the pipe between the pool feature and jet mechanisms.

In the skimmer port, there is an inlet, and I remember the water used to gush from that port, and I have to believe that is the line from pump filter to complete the cycle (sticking pipe in both pics, on the right side in the suction, opposite to the barracude pipe) and there is another hole next to the barracuda port that I havent figured out either.

I should install a skimmer port valve, but wondering where the barracuda line will go. right now its connected to left most port (pic 1).

 

[proavia]

When the Barracude is stopped, the skimmer flow definitely stops as well. and when the Barracuda is running fast, the skimmer flow decreases. Seems like both are sharing the same line....


I do not see a float valve and it shows the first pic with two holes in the link above.

Based on the fact that when the Barracuda is stopped the flow thru the skimmer stops as well, I believe the two pipes coming out of the ground near the Jandy valve that goes into the leafvac are one to the main drain and one to the skimmer/vac port. With pump off, vac hose disconnected, remove the skimmmer basket and put a water hose in the skimmer port closest to the pool. Does water come out of the vac port? If not, try the water hose in the skimmer port furthest from the pool - does water come out of the vac port?

 

[proavia]

Maybe. The pool was built in 2001, well before VGBA requirements. Unless it was remodeled since 2008 and the drains added.

I have seen several pools in the area with A&A infloor systems built in the mid to late 90's into the early 2000's. All have had 2 main drains. I'm sure there are a few that aren't plumbed that way though.

 

[krishmk]

Based on the fact that when the Barracuda is stopped the flow thru the skimmer stops as well, I believe the two pipes coming out of the ground near the Jandy valve that goes into the leafvac are one to the main drain and one to the skimmer/vac port. With pump off, vac hose disconnected, remove the skimmmer basket and put a water hose in the skimmer port closest to the pool. Does water come out of the vac port? If not, try the water hose in the skimmer port furthest from the pool - does water come out of the vac port?

Well I am not entirely convinced or sure if the skimmer stops when Barracuda is stopped.. dont remember and now I can test this as pool pump is stopped due to the leafvac broken and wont retain any vacuum.

I am going to test the two holes in the skimmer with a water hose and see where the water comes out...

BTW if I want to install skimmer float valve, then I have to forgo the barracuda right? as I do not see a way to connect the vac hose.

Thanks for being patient and teaching an ignorant.

 

[proavia]

Right now, the first course of action is it dig out the leafvac and surrounding plumbing to replumb the suction side, sans the leafvac. This will allow you to use the system. And then you can play with the Jandy valfe to see when flow stops.

I wouldn't worry above the skimmer float valve right now. I was just wondering if one was there or not, while trying to figure out your plumbing. The Barracuda would still connect as it does now - whether or not a flow valve is install in the skimmer throat.

 

[krishmk]

Right now, the first course of action is it dig out the leafvac and surrounding plumbing to replumb the suction side, sans the leafvac. This will allow you to use the system. And then you can play with the Jandy valfe to see when flow stops.

I wouldn't worry above the skimmer float valve right now. I was just wondering if one was there or not, while trying to figure out your plumbing. The Barracuda would still connect as it does now - whether or not a flow valve is install in the skimmer throat.

Going out to HD to get the parts for replumbing, sans the leafvac. I will update you how/what I find.

 

[ajw22]

Going out to HD to get the parts for replumbing, sans the leafvac. I will update you how/what I find.

Make sure you get Schedule 40 pipe and elbows and not DWV elbows…

PVC Repair - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[krishmk]

Make sure you get Schedule 40 pipe and elbows and not DWV elbows…

PVC Repair - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks for the tip. I went with my neighbor who is an handyman and he helped me buy stuff and join the pipes as well after cutting them to the proper size.

Will wait till tomorrow morning so the glue sets in, even though its instant, so hopefully I wont have a leak and run nicely with the new joins.