The is again for posting. Did you by any chance test the tap FC to see where it was prior to the dilution? I'm doubting there is an issue, but just curious as the limits (if it's city water) are pretty broad.
Small-scale CYA Reducer Trial
- Thread starter Aqua Lab Rat
- Start date
I just pulled a sample from the same tap. Chlorine measurements less than 0.1 are within the "noise floor" of the test.
Total CL = 0.02
Free CL = 0.01
pH = 7.8
I can also tell you that the tap TA is usually about 300ppm and CH is around 400 ppm.
Total CL = 0.02
Free CL = 0.01
pH = 7.8
I can also tell you that the tap TA is usually about 300ppm and CH is around 400 ppm.
Today (Monday) 3 days:
Total Cl = 2.02
Free Cl = 1.45
pH = 7.4
CYA = 180 (average of 3 tests)
Temperature 80.1
Added 5 grams of sodium bisulfate after test.
Note: I will be away on Wednesday and Thursday, so I suppose that will be when the "action" takes place.
Total Cl = 2.02
Free Cl = 1.45
pH = 7.4
CYA = 180 (average of 3 tests)
Temperature 80.1
Added 5 grams of sodium bisulfate after test.
Note: I will be away on Wednesday and Thursday, so I suppose that will be when the "action" takes place.
Today (Tuesday) 4 days:
Total Cl = 1.74
Free Cl = 1.21
pH = 7.4
CYA = 180 (average of 2 tests)
Temperature = 79.7
Added 10 grams of sodium bisulfate after test.
Total Cl = 1.74
Free Cl = 1.21
pH = 7.4
CYA = 180 (average of 2 tests)
Temperature = 79.7
Added 10 grams of sodium bisulfate after test.
Not working it seems. If that is city water, your municipality is badly out of compliance presuming it's a representative sample, which I do assume. So you are trying a scavenging of the FC for another test/effect I guess?
Today (Friday) 7 days:
Total CL = 0.83
Free CL = 0.33
pH = 7.2
CYA = 190 (2 tests)
Temperature = 79.0
Nothing happening yet.
Total CL = 0.83
Free CL = 0.33
pH = 7.2
CYA = 190 (2 tests)
Temperature = 79.0
Nothing happening yet.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,484
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
This thread only seems to add the level of disappointment in this product so far....
Did you measure your phosphate levels at all? There are some posts regarding low phosphate levels reducing the effectiveness of the bacterial colonies enzyme production.
Does anyone know if the bacteria consume CYA directly or do they produce an enzyme that degrades the CYA?
Did you measure your phosphate levels at all? There are some posts regarding low phosphate levels reducing the effectiveness of the bacterial colonies enzyme production.
Does anyone know if the bacteria consume CYA directly or do they produce an enzyme that degrades the CYA?
I don't normally test phosphates but I just checked. I had a hard time reading the phosphate test kit that I did have (a LaMotte low range kit that I bought 2 years ago). If it is to be believed, there is probably 1000ppb or more.
If a CYA-reducing product wasn't so desperately needed in our industry, there's no way we'd put up with needing the phosphates, pH, sanitizer, metals, and algaecide to all be in specific little ranges in order for it to work at all. Real pools vary all over the place due to source water, environment, etc.
I'll keep the test running into next week & hope for the best. The only other thing I can think to test would be copper. I don't know if I have anything to test it with. Will think about it on Monday.
If a CYA-reducing product wasn't so desperately needed in our industry, there's no way we'd put up with needing the phosphates, pH, sanitizer, metals, and algaecide to all be in specific little ranges in order for it to work at all. Real pools vary all over the place due to source water, environment, etc.
I'll keep the test running into next week & hope for the best. The only other thing I can think to test would be copper. I don't know if I have anything to test it with. Will think about it on Monday.
I was just reading through this thread and some links posted in it http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/90865-Bioactive-technical-process
My test has been in a loosely covered tank, but maybe any covering is a problem. The information suggests that gas exchange is an issue.
Another point in there says that they recommend putting a full bag even in a small pool due to the small amount of bacteria in the product.
So maybe if I don't see a result by Monday, I should dump in a much larger dose and leave the cover completely open.
My test has been in a loosely covered tank, but maybe any covering is a problem. The information suggests that gas exchange is an issue.
Another point in there says that they recommend putting a full bag even in a small pool due to the small amount of bacteria in the product.
So maybe if I don't see a result by Monday, I should dump in a much larger dose and leave the cover completely open.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,484
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Oh, I totally agree with you that this product should not be dependent on a pool owner putting something in the water, i.e., phosphates, when there is an entire industry built around the notion that phosphates are horrible and require weekly chemical maintenance or else you risk an algae-apocalypse in your pool.
But at 1000ppb, you should have more than enough algae food for the bacteria to be happy with....
I'm not trying to scoop your findings here, but I'm thinking this stuff (CYA Reducer) is basically a failure or, at the very least, only workable in a controlled laboratory environment.
This morning (Day 10) :
Total CL = 0.27
Free CL = 0.05
pH = 7.4
CYA = 185
Temp = 79.5
What I'm considering doing at this point is adding another dose of the product and making sure it is well-ventilated. I don't want to put much more into this, though.
Total CL = 0.27
Free CL = 0.05
pH = 7.4
CYA = 185
Temp = 79.5
What I'm considering doing at this point is adding another dose of the product and making sure it is well-ventilated. I don't want to put much more into this, though.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,484
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Wow. You have done an awesome job documenting this trial.
I'm wondering - do you plan on sharing your results with BioWish to give them a chance to respond to what looks like a total failure of their product to perform?
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I'm wondering - do you plan on sharing your results with BioWish to give them a chance to respond to what looks like a total failure of their product to perform?
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I suppose I could share the results with them. I'm testing this more out of curiosity than anything though I hope it is useful in some way.
OK, on to trial #3. I have added 10 grams (about 4 x normal dose) of product to the test tank without changing the water or adding anything else. I'll let the chlorine just lay there in the weeds, and will manage the pH to stay under 7.5. Also this time I will leave the tank cover completely open for good gas exchange.
Other prep notes: To hopefully avoid any product "segregation/settling" issues from only using a partial bag, I slowly tilted the bag around and then dumped it onto a plastic dish. I spread it around and took scoops from various places to make up my 10 grams. I noticed that there are yellowish flecks mixed in with the white powder and I made sure I got some. I assume they may be the biological component. I then mixed the product with about 300mL of water from my tank before dumping it in near the filter.
OK, on to trial #3. I have added 10 grams (about 4 x normal dose) of product to the test tank without changing the water or adding anything else. I'll let the chlorine just lay there in the weeds, and will manage the pH to stay under 7.5. Also this time I will leave the tank cover completely open for good gas exchange.
Other prep notes: To hopefully avoid any product "segregation/settling" issues from only using a partial bag, I slowly tilted the bag around and then dumped it onto a plastic dish. I spread it around and took scoops from various places to make up my 10 grams. I noticed that there are yellowish flecks mixed in with the white powder and I made sure I got some. I assume they may be the biological component. I then mixed the product with about 300mL of water from my tank before dumping it in near the filter.
n240sxguy
Well-known member
You should share your findings with them, and tell them you're curious why their product doesn't do anything. From the sound of all these threads about it, they might as well be selling bags of sugar.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- May 23, 2015
- 24,484
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
My water is becoming turbid now due to lack of sanitizer. This is obviously a problem from the standpoint of measuring CYA. I will add some chlorine to try to slow it down, but keep it at a low enough dose so that I'm not killing all of the "good" stuff.
Ugh. Added 7g of dichlor earlier. Too late, though - the turbidity developed so fast that I was reading something like 250ppm of CYA even though I started with 180. I'm going to start over with fresh water. I want to test the higher dose of product, but will maintain some minimal chlorine residual this time.
It's nice you are sharing this with us, but my hope and confidence in this product is waning at this point.
Yeah, it looks like the only truly positive result was one pool service tech on another forum. Everyone else has had either no change or very minimal change.
I agree, I just think that it is good practice to have some controlled testing in addition to real world testing. Otherwise it is too easy for someone to say "you didn't do _____" or "your data doesn't show what the parameters were". The real world results are more important, obviously.
I'm only planning to do one more test, and the tank will be ready either later today or tomorrow morning. The tank will soon be tied up with actual work. But I like doing this type of thing to learn or satisfy my curiosity.
I'm only planning to do one more test, and the tank will be ready either later today or tomorrow morning. The tank will soon be tied up with actual work. But I like doing this type of thing to learn or satisfy my curiosity.