56k Gallon Pool / Double SWG? (Jandy)

[PoolGate]

Ha ha your builder's response, although sad, is quite common. Builders know very little about water chemistry except what they learned when they started in the industry, most of which is outdated. The comment over 1 SWG instead of 2 is purely ignorance, possibly willful ignorance as it is simple math. He tries to push consumable mineral cartridges because that is what Jandy/Nature2 sells him and you can bet he gets extra money for pushing them. Pushing a single speed is borderline criminal. Especially since with utility rebates, you'll end up paying the same as with a VSP but with 10% of the running costs.

Ask your builder what "chlorine lock" is and how you get it (and how you resolve it).

Nod politely and have your builder do what he does best, build pools to YOUR specifications.

 

[PoolGate]

Yea... I'm fairly aligned with the folks on here I think. AKA leaning towards double Fusion Soft, VS pump.
Greatly appreciate the quick feedback.

Next is do I spend lots of money on Water Trucks. Or do I fill this bad boy up with well water that tested .3ppm iron in it but otherwise clean. I assume that would be in another forum though.

I would go water trucks for sure. One time expense. A well with that quantity of water will burn up your well pump at the minimum. $2k probably?

 

[ajw22]

Next is do I spend lots of money on Water Trucks. Or do I fill this bad boy up with well water that tested .3ppm iron in it but otherwise clean. I assume that would be in another forum though.

You have a big pool. Use water trucks and get the pool filled and the plaster curing quickly. Well worth the $3K or so. A few years ago it cost me about $500 for a 7,000 gallon truck of water.

 

[PoolGate]

And again I am going to express my complete displeasure with your entire plumbing situation. It is woefully inadequate for what you got. Now is the time to talk to your builder about fixing it. You should have bottom returns (aka deep heat returns). It is too late for them, but I don't think it is too late for extra wall returns. It looks like you have almost an entire wall of no water flow. Are there any returns on your sun-deck? Any jets in the spa? How many skimmers? I see one is there another on the hidden corner? He couldn't even be bothered to give you a dedicated return for your vacuum. It connects into 1 of your 2 return lines. What will keep it from back-feeding into the plumbing above it? And what is he doing - 1 return for the pool and 1 for the spa? Just simply inadequate.

 

[PoolGate]

To give you an idea, here are my returns. I have a dedicated line for my pressure port vacuum. A dedicated line for my 3 bottom returns. A dedicated line for 2 wall returns. A dedicated line for my sheer descent and a dedicated line for my waterfall. All in all that is 5 PVC lines going back to the pool. You have 2 for a pool twice as big with a spa!

 

[streamlined]

And again I am going to express my complete displeasure with your entire plumbing situation. It is woefully inadequate for what you got. Now is the time to talk to your builder about fixing it. You should have bottom returns (aka deep heat returns). It is too late for them, but I don't think it is too late for extra wall returns. It looks like you have almost an entire wall of no water flow. Are there any returns on your sun-deck? Any jets in the spa? How many skimmers? I see one is there another on the hidden corner? He couldn't even be bothered to give you a dedicated return for your vacuum. It connects into 1 of your 2 return lines. What will keep it from back-feeding into the plumbing above it? And what is he doing - 1 return for the pool and 1 for the spa? Just simply inadequate.

Express to your hearts content. I'm nothing if not thankful.

I'll take a look tomorrow when the sun is back up and report back about what I got / show some more detailed pics.

Thank you! Seriously!

 

[streamlined]

Express to your hearts content. I'm nothing if not thankful.

I'll take a look tomorrow when the sun is back up and report back about what I got / show some more detailed pics.

Thank you! Seriously!

So more pics showing what I got:

Another pic of everything comings in / out (with some rain things are starting to get covered):


Side view of same thing:


Things heading away... you can see everything is going along shallow end here to wrap around (except for one pipe that is two returns I guess going to other side):


Similar shot here you can see the one pipe going off to other side:


Note sure when I'm going to hit the file size limit here but showing them going around the pool:


And finally wrapping all the way around to deep end:


Inside the pool showing returns etc... will be next post as will run outta room on files.

 

[streamlined]

Showing inside now... here are the two returns? on the long side of pool across from spa. One pipe is feeding these (that is it for this wall / side). You can also see the deepend light / returns at far end:


This is opposite side. You can see 2 skimmer areas, the swim out in deep end, a return and a light:


Now I'm looking back at the sun shelf. You can see the light and I guess 2 returns?:


Forgot to get a zoom in of hottub but here is an older shot taken from above. It has 6 jets in it... you can see plumbing more clearly here as this is before rain:


If anyone sees anything wrong it thinks I should demand another return or change or something please advise. As always thanks!

 

[PoolGate]

It is not as bad as I thought. I would have liked to see more return homeruns, but at least they spread them out around the pool. Are you getting eyeballs installed in the returns? You'll want good circulation for sure.

All those trees too make me shudder! You'll be doing a lot of leaf skimming.

Diving board?

 

[JamesW]

Here is what I would recommend.

System Board: AquaLink RS (RS-PS8).

AquaLink Interfaces. iAquaLink.

iAquaLink 3.0 Web Connect Device - Antenna Only | Jandy

Build the perfect pool environment with Jandy professional-grade equipment. With a full line of pumps, filters, heaters, lights, valves, water sanitizers, and the automation solutions to control it all, Jandy has the complete package for any pool.

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Power Center: PureLink Sub-Panel Power Center for Automation and Salt Water Chlorination (6614AP-L)

Salt System cell: PLC1400.

I would try it with one cell to see if it works.

You can always leave the pump on 24/7 if necessary and the cell up to 100%.

One cell will give you 2.7 ppm per day, which will be enough for most days.

If you want an extra cell, you will need a separate power box and extra PLC1400 cell kit.

I am not 100% sure if the automation will recognize an additional salt system and allow you to control two through the automation.

You could put the extra power center on manual control.

Check with Jandy to see if the automation will control two SWGs.

For live help selecting the right automation system or for tech support for any other Zodiac, Jandy, Polaris®, Baracuda®, or Nature2 product, please call Zodiac tech support M-F 6 a.m. - 5 p.m. (Pacific), 9 a.m. - 8 p.m. (Eastern) at 1-800-822-7933, or email us any time at [email protected]

The pump should be a 2.7 hp variable speed pump.

You can have a dummy cell plumbed in in case you want to add an extra cell in the future.

Or, you can just go with two PLC1400 from the beginning.

The Fusionsoft does not really make sense and plumbing it in series will require being able to sit two units on the ground.

With two PLC1400 cells, you can do a vertical loop with a cell going up and one going down.

 

[JamesW]

1 Hayward Booster Pump (for 2 spillways coming out of spa)

Is the booster pump for a cleaner or the spillways?

 

[ajw22]

System Board: AquaLink RS (RS-PS8).

AquaLink Interfaces. iAquaLink.

Power Center: PureLink Sub-Panel Power Center for Automation and Salt Water Chlorination (6614AP-L)

Salt System cell: PLC1400.

Agreed.

I would try it with one cell to see if it works.

You can always leave the pump on 24/7 if necessary and the cell up to 100%.

One cell will give you 2.7 ppm per day, which will be enough for most days.

Being at the same latitude and general area I can say 2.7 ppm will not keep up with the FC demands for about 8 weeks in the summer.

With that large of a pool you really don't want to deal with algae and the SLAM Process as it requires a lot of jugs of liquid chlorine.

Having excess chlorine generation capacity and running the FC high keeps from ever dealing with the SLAM Process.

If you want an extra cell, you will need a separate power box and extra PLC1400 cell kit.

I am not 100% sure if the automation will recognize an additional salt system and allow you to control two through the automation.

You could put the extra power center on manual control.

You run one cell at a set percnetage and then dial in the FC generated using the Aqualink with the automation controlled cell.

 

[JamesW]

Being at the same latitude and general area I can say 2.7 ppm will not keep up with the FC demands for about 8 weeks in the summer.

I think that it could work, but it would require very close attention and it would have little margin for error.

Probably best to get two and have the assurance of being able to keep up.

Using two cells should not cost more in the long run assuming that they last twice as long.

The main cost is higher for the initial cost of two cells and the extra power box.

The 6614AP-L Power center comes with a built in subpanel and a SWG power supply.

For the extra cell, you will need an APUREM power control box and a PLC1400 cell kit.

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https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0325600.pdf

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/sl/sl6605.pdf

 

[JamesW]

Fluidra is a global manufacturer of residential pool equipment and connected pool solutions.

The Fluidra family of brands includes Jandy, Polaris, Zodiac, iAquaLink, Cover-Pools, Nature2, Caretaker, Baracuda, SAVI, and Grand Effects.

 

[JamesW]

5 LED lights

You might want to put the lights on two or three separate circuits so that you have more control over the lighting and you don't have to always turn on all or none.

I would have at least two groups of pool lights and a separate circuit for the spa light.

This will take three relays and three transformers (if low voltage).

This is one of the reasons to go with an RS-PS8 instead of the RS-PS6.

The 6 can run out of relays fast.

See the below post where the poster ran out of control due to system limitations.

Can I wire my lights individually? Aqualink RS4

We have three LED lights. I’d like to be able to turn the one on the tanning shelf off and on by itself. I currently have three Jandy Valve Actuators and the last relay is hooked up to the pump which makes me think controlling the lights doesn’t require a relay. The lights go into a low voltage...

www.troublefreepool.com

If you will have low voltage lights, you will need a separate transformer for each group of lights.

 

[JamesW]

Right now, you have three pumps, two light circuits, 1 heater, 2 SWGs.

The VS pump does not go on a relay, but the filter relay is dedicated to the filter pump anyway.

The SWG will be powered from the Filter relay for safety.

The extra SWG will go on the Filter relay.

The booster pump will need a relay.

The jet pump will need a relay.

The heater won’t need a relay as you want to keep that powered.

Each light circuit will need a relay.

Including the Filter pump relay, that’s 5 relays, right there.

You might want to put outdoor lighting on a relay so that you can control it through the automation.

 

[wireform]

You might want to put the lights on two or three separate circuits so that you have more control over the lighting and you don't have to always turn on all or none.

I would have at least two groups of pool lights and a separate circuit for the spa light.

This will take three relays and three transformers (if low voltage).

This is one of the reasons to go with an RS-PS8 instead of the RS-PS6.

The 6 can run out of relays fast.

See the below post where the poster ran out of control due to system limitations.

Can I wire my lights individually? Aqualink RS4

We have three LED lights. I’d like to be able to turn the one on the tanning shelf off and on by itself. I currently have three Jandy Valve Actuators and the last relay is hooked up to the pump which makes me think controlling the lights doesn’t require a relay. The lights go into a low voltage...

www.troublefreepool.com

If you will have low voltage lights, you will need a separate transformer for each group of lights.

With grouping I would separate the lighting by grouping every other light on group #1 and then the ones left out from the first group for the group #2. This way you can have the pool different brightness depending which group or both together and still have light all over. Not sure if this is feasible.

 

[streamlined]

It is not as bad as I thought. I would have liked to see more return homeruns, but at least they spread them out around the pool. Are you getting eyeballs installed in the returns? You'll want good circulation for sure.

All those trees too make me shudder! You'll be doing a lot of leaf skimming.

Diving board?

2 of the closest trees are going down and they look closer than they are but yea... i live in the forest. When I bought this house this entire area was woods. Took be 2 years to cut them all down (70 some trees). Turned it into lawn for 5 years or so and now its going pool.
No idea on eyeballs... I'll ask.
I am getting a diving board. They won't do a spring board etc. Just a 6 foot diving board. I tried to source something more springy but not easy to do right now.

Here is what I would recommend.

System Board: AquaLink RS (RS-PS8).

Power Center: PureLink Sub-Panel Power Center for Automation and Salt Water Chlorination (6614AP-L)

Salt System cell: PLC1400.

I would try it with one cell to see if it works.

You can always leave the pump on 24/7 if necessary and the cell up to 100%.

One cell will give you 2.7 ppm per day, which will be enough for most days.

If you want an extra cell, you will need a separate power box and extra PLC1400 cell kit.

I am not 100% sure if the automation will recognize an additional salt system and allow you to control two through the automation.

You could put the extra power center on manual control.

Check with Jandy to see if the automation will control two SWGs.

For live help selecting the right automation system or for tech support for any other Zodiac, Jandy, Polaris®, Baracuda®, or Nature2 product, please call Zodiac tech support M-F 6 a.m. - 5 p.m. (Pacific), 9 a.m. - 8 p.m. (Eastern) at 1-800-822-7933, or email us any time at [email protected]

The pump should be a 2.7 hp variable speed pump.

You can have a dummy cell plumbed in in case you want to add an extra cell in the future.

Or, you can just go with two PLC1400 from the beginning.

The Fusionsoft does not really make sense and plumbing it in series will require being able to sit two units on the ground.

With two PLC1400 cells, you can do a vertical loop with a cell going up and one going down.

Trying to respond to other stuff up top too here:
AquaLink:
I agree with upgrading AquaLink for Relays to the "PS8". I didn't think of putting low voltage landscape lighting on this as well... just looking quickly I see people successful with that on here. That is a great idea and can fold that all into "smart". This will all be hooked up to a home assistant setup I'm putting together. Just got my hardware for that recently!
I assume I'm getting the 6614AP but will make sure its not a 6613AP power center. I guess I want this for the sub panel? Honestly this is one thing I'm not entirely sure of need. Have to read more?

SWG / Pumps:
PB has the fusion softs in stock (and associate control board etc) and doesn't have the aquapures so I think the fusion is to stay even if I don't want the "mineral feature". I was thinking of just getting 2 but I could start with 1 and always add one after a season if needed (seems most agree on starting with 2).
I'm told automation can control 2 but like everyone has said one on manual would be fine.
Jandy also said to do the fusionsoft in parallel. PB said Jandy told them they should be T'd off the heater... not in-line. I've called that number a few times but never gotten anyone. Once they call back actually worked but it was like 3 hours later and I missed it.

Concerning running a pump 24/7. Isn't that kinda expensive? Wouldn't it save money to have 2 chlorinators running and not have to run pump so much?
I am switching to the 2.7hp FS Pump. And again thought I'd want it running harder to turn over water than slow but 24/7.

 

[streamlined]

Is the booster pump for a cleaner or the spillways?

Booster is for cleaner.
Will have a VS for pool filter etc.
Is be another 2hp to control the 2 spillways.

 

[JamesW]

I guess I want this for the sub panel?

You definitely need the subpanel.

(and associate control board etc)

It's the same control board.

Jandy also said to do the fusionsoft in parallel.

They are not paying the electric bill.

Series is fine.

Concerning running a pump 24/7. Isn't that kinda expensive?

The power is a cube factor.

So, running at 1/2 speed actually uses about 1/6th to 1/8th of the power.

So, even if you run twice as long, the energy usage is about 1/3rd or 1/4th.

If you run at about 25 to 30 gpm. your power costs will be very low.

You can probably run at 208 watts, which is 5 kilowatt-hours per day, which is 50 cents per day at 10 cents per kilowatt-hour, which is $15.00 per month.

During heater use, the pump has to speed up and will use about 400 watts, but even that is not too bad for power usage.

Is be another 2hp to control the 2 spillways.

Why do you need an extra pump?

You should be able to use the regular filter pump on spillover mode.

Maybe get the Versaflo for better efficiency.

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/sl/sl6971.pdf

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/sl/sl5872.pdf

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0493300.pdf

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