4 months in, very unhappy - help me learn?

[DigitalCK]

Quick timeline and some pics for reference.... DFW area

Feb 20 - Pool plastered w/ pebbletec
Feb 22 - Orenda startup begins

Note, pool already quite dirty here. Landscaping was not put in prior to pool startup.

Feb 26 - Continued brushing helps a little but still can't get it "clean"



March 17 - Still not really better. After being told to "brush toward the drain" we just have ugly bottom of pool now too. But still not clean throughout even when brushing. Irrigation repairs finally done



March 21 - 4 1/2 pallets sod finally installed in yard (mostly back yard, some front)

April 8 - getting worse. Readings continue to show low/no chlorine or stabilizer



April 11 - Pool service tells us we need filter cleaned. Pics below









April 14 - Still not getting better

 

[DigitalCK]

Continued...





May 9 - After pool service attempts at "cleanup" (was charged extra $250 for this on top of the weekly maintenance), water is clear, some cleaning has happened. Was told likely algae, but now that it's gone, the pool has stains and streaks... primarily under the water spillover from spa and from where the waterfalls/features would naturally flow to the drain. Not sure if scale, bleached, etc. Top view with smooth water:

 

[DigitalCK]

So my big question. What the heck happened? What is the problem? How can I make my new 6-figure home addition not make me mad every time I'm out there? How can we fix this? What would YOU do in my case?

Yes, they got their final builder payment (per our lender, we had no choice).

Yes, we're STILL waiting on other things to be finished and our final inspection from the city has not yet been completed.

Yes, we can swim now. Yes, we have a new maintenance company. Yes, our readings NOW look better.

I'm happy to share anything else. I just want to get this resolved.

I have contacted our builder, they sent me to the startup team (that was included w/ contract - not one we paid separately) who then said it's not their issue. We contacted pebbletec and while they said they'd look into it, I haven't heard back on someone coming out. I can't contact who put in the plaster as it was a subcontractor by our builder and we don't know who it is and our builder still is miserable at getting back to us in timely manners.

 

[proavia]

Post a full set of current test results from one of the recommended test kits.
Test Kits Compared

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Water temperature

How are you chlorinating?
Any chemicals added with coppper in them or having the words "blue" or "blu" in them?

 

[duraleigh]

So my big question. What the heck happened?

Neglect

How can we fix this? What would YOU do in my case?

TFP teaches folks how to manage pool water chemistry so your pool is CRYSTAL CLEAR. But it's self management and doesn't involve pool store and pool services.

If that interests you, start here........ Pool Care Basics Archives

It also involves very precise testing so be prepared for a learning curve but we will help EVERY step of the way.

 

[pjt]

What the heck happened? What is the problem?

Your problems began here ---> "Feb 22 - Orenda startup begins"

Without TFP, owning a pool is like walking through a minefield. Unfortunately, you've already stepped on a few mines. You're in the right place now though.

 

[Bperry]

Neglect

TFP teaches folks how to manage pool water chemistry so your pool is CRYSTAL CLEAR. But it's self management and doesn't involve pool store and pool services.

If that interests you, start here........https://www.troublefreepool.com/blog/category/pool-school/pool-care-basics/

It also involves very precise testing so be prepared for a learning curve but we will help EVERY step of the way.

This reply is probably the best balance of honesty and genuine advice. Pool builders might be good at building pools but it sure seems likely they are terrible at sanitation and maintenance.

Pool care can be very easy and not something that -requires- a pool maintainence company to do for you. It’s surprisingly simple once you test your own water and not blindly follow pool store printouts.

For the original poster, now that you’ve discovered that your builder, service company, and even the plaster manufacturer isn’t much help, I’d recommend taking charge of your own situation and DIY with us here. It’s really simple but does take some work initially but gets easier over time. Welcome!

 

[JJ_Tex]

Pool builders are clueless when it comes to pool maintenance, but this is one where it is not the pool builder's fault.

This site is all about maintaining your own pool. No pool stores, no pool services, only you can care for your pool the correct way. If that is for you, we can certainly help you.

Hopefully you will fire the pool company, but if not, keep in mind that the algae you see is solely caused by not enough chlorine. People get caught up in the other numbers, filters, etc. and get taken advantage of when all the pool needs is some chlorine.

 

[DigitalCK]

Neglect

TFP teaches folks how to manage pool water chemistry so your pool is CRYSTAL CLEAR. But it's self management and doesn't involve pool store and pool services.

If that interests you, start here........https://www.troublefreepool.com/blog/category/pool-school/pool-care-basics/

It also involves very precise testing so be prepared for a learning curve but we will help EVERY step of the way.

Thanks for the honesty - kinda stings, but thanks. As a first time pool owner, and hearing how important early days of plaster care are, it seems odd to me that this falls under "my neglect" when the issues arose pretty much on day 2 or 3 or whatever it is. We did what our builder told us to do - brush it twice a day, yet it was trouble.

And while self-care of the pool is an ideal state for us, having someone help us with the initial start-up and first few months of maintenance shouldn't be out of the ordinary...

I'm happy to learn, but taking all that over on Day 1 of a first pool fill was never part of our plan, and kinda feels like entrusting that to the builder and their recommendations and startup company isn't "neglect"... I do mean that in the most respectful way, but just trying to understand how that's the case.

Your problems began here ---> "Feb 22 - Orenda startup begins"

Without TFP, owning a pool is like walking through a minefield. Unfortunately, you've already stepped on a few mines. You're in the right place now though.

Thanks I think - can you help explain why the startup was my problem? What should we have done differently?

And what would you suggest we do next?

This reply is probably the best balance of honesty and genuine advice. Pool builders might be good at building pools but it sure seems likely they are terrible at sanitation and maintenance.

Pool care can be very easy and not something that -requires- a pool maintainence company to do for you. It’s surprisingly simple once you test your own water and not blindly follow pool store printouts.

For the original poster, now that you’ve discovered that your builder, service company, and even the plaster manufacturer isn’t much help, I’d recommend taking charge of your own situation and DIY with us here. It’s really simple but does take some work initially but gets easier over time. Welcome!

Our builder partners with a local maintenance company so it's not technically themselves doing it, but I get your message.

I'd love some tips on what y'all think I should do to resolve our issue now - when you say take charge of your own situation and DIY... what are the next steps to get our plaster looking nice? Or where would I go to look at those DIY tips/info?

Pool builders are clueless when it comes to pool maintenance, but this is one where it is not the pool builder's fault.

This site is all about maintaining your own pool. No pool stores, no pool services, only you can care for your pool the correct way. If that is for you, we can certainly help you.

Hopefully you will fire the pool company, but if not, keep in mind that the algae you see is solely caused by not enough chlorine. People get caught up in the other numbers, filters, etc. and get taken advantage of when all the pool needs is some chlorine.

The pool builder supplied the maintenance for startup. I guess that's where I'm confused.

But that said, yes, we have learned there was not enough chlorine. Initially we used the test strips provided by the builder. THat's how we found that out. When we contacted the maintenance company to understand what the readings were they took from the water and what they added, they refused to tell us. Seemed a bit shady, which is also part of why we switched.


As of now, here are our 3 most recent readings. As it is getting much hotter here in Tx, our avg daily pool temp has gone from around 83-84 earlier in June to now around 90 during the day as of yesterday. We do have full sun on the pool all day as well. Please let me know what else may be needed to properly assess/determine other details. Happy to share whatever - I'm good to learn, just want to enjoy this and feel better about the quality (and of course fix what's already going on)

6/2:

READINGS 2 ppm total chlorine 6.8 pH 80 ppm total alkalinity 100 ppm cyanuric acid 250 ppm total hardness ​ CHEMICALS ADDED 2 tabs 1 lbs shock 2 lbs pH ↑

6/9:

READINGS 3 ppm total chlorine 7.5 pH 120 ppm total alkalinity 100 ppm cyanuric acid 250 ppm total hardness ​ CHEMICALS ADDED 2 lbs shock

6/16:

READINGS 2 ppm total chlorine 7.5 pH 120 ppm total alkalinity 100 ppm cyanuric acid 250 ppm total hardness ​ CHEMICALS ADDED 2 tabs 1 lbs shock

 

[Bperry]

Thanks for the honesty - kinda stings, but thanks. As a first time pool owner, and hearing how important early days of plaster care are, it seems odd to me that this falls under "my neglect" when the issues arose pretty much on day 2 or 3 or whatever it is. We did what our builder told us to do - brush it twice a day, yet it was trouble.

And while self-care of the pool is an ideal state for us, having someone help us with the initial start-up and first few months of maintenance shouldn't be out of the ordinary...

I'm happy to learn, but taking all that over on Day 1 of a first pool fill was never part of our plan, and kinda feels like entrusting that to the builder and their recommendations and startup company isn't "neglect"... I do mean that in the most respectful way, but just trying to understand how that's the case.



Thanks I think - can you help explain why the startup was my problem? What should we have done differently?

And what would you suggest we do next?



Our builder partners with a local maintenance company so it's not technically themselves doing it, but I get your message.

I'd love some tips on what y'all think I should do to resolve our issue now - when you say take charge of your own situation and DIY... what are the next steps to get our plaster looking nice? Or where would I go to look at those DIY tips/info?



The pool builder supplied the maintenance for startup. I guess that's where I'm confused.

But that said, yes, we have learned there was not enough chlorine. Initially we used the test strips provided by the builder. THat's how we found that out. When we contacted the maintenance company to understand what the readings were they took from the water and what they added, they refused to tell us. Seemed a bit shady, which is also part of why we switched.


As of now, here are our 3 most recent readings. As it is getting much hotter here in Tx, our avg daily pool temp has gone from around 83-84 earlier in June to now around 90 during the day as of yesterday. We do have full sun on the pool all day as well. Please let me know what else may be needed to properly assess/determine other details. Happy to share whatever - I'm good to learn, just want to enjoy this and feel better about the quality (and of course fix what's already going on)

6/2:


6/9:


6/16:

I wouldn’t misconstrue the neglect part to mean it’s all your fault. Your pool builder should be better informed but sadly it’s common to not be. It’s a big part of how TFP keeps growing.

Best course of action:
1. Order one of the two TFP recommended test kits.
2. Add 5ppm chlorinating liquid to your pool each day until the kit arrives and you can perform a full set of tests.

 

[JJ_Tex]

+1 on what Bperry said. In my opinion, if you were paying for a pool service, and your brand new pool has that much algae in it, the neglect falls on them.

Regardless, now is the take to fire them and manage your pool correctly. After you get your test kit, post up your readings. If your pool store testing is to be trusted, I would expect your course of action would be:
1. Partial drain as your CYA is likely high from the use of pucks/powdered chlorine
2. SLAM to kill the algae, will probably take a week or two based on your pictures
3. Let us help you manage your water so you never get a speck of algae again in your new pool, and are not shelling out $ to pool stores and pool maintenance companies since you can see how your pool turns out when using the "experts" there.

 

[Bperry]

I wouldn’t misconstrue the neglect part to mean it’s all your fault. Your pool builder should be better informed but sadly it’s common to not be. It’s a big part of how TFP keeps growing.

Best course of action:
1. Order one of the two TFP recommended test kits.
2. Add 5ppm chlorinating liquid to your pool each day until the kit arrives and you can perform a full set of tests.

I’ll add some extra advice cause I forgot originally. If we believed the test results you have so far (we don’t, and I know that sounds arrogant but it’s not intended to be, it’s just that test strips are really really inaccurate), you’re CYA/stabilizer level is already very high which would require draining and replacing a good bit of water to fix. Here’s a link explaining the details:

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.

www.troublefreepool.com

but essentially CYA holds some of the chlorine in the water in a kind of buffer so it doesn’t do anything. The more CYA in the water, the morE chlorine is held up. Kinda like keeping players on the bench instead of playing on the field. The more CYA you have, the more chlorine (players) you need to have on the field to sanitize the water. In this way, the correct chlorine levels are always a ratio of the CYA level.

To add to that, the pucks and powdered shock you added add even more CYA to the water, which takes what little chlorine you have in the water and makes it even less effective. So ideally with 100CYA, you need to keep the chlorine levels above 8ppm at all times and preferably closer to 13ppm to ensure you have enough players on the field so to speak.

But those strips are terrible at reading CYA accurately hence the need for a good test kit.

 

[PoolStored]

And what would you suggest we do next?

1. Get a test kit...Link-->Test Kits Compared
2. Download pool math...Link-->PoolMath
3. Use pool math to help you figure out how to add 5ppm of liquid chlorine.
4. Add 5ppm liquid chlorine PER DAY until you test kit arrives.
5. Test with test kit and post results and we will help...

 

[pjt]

can you help explain why the startup was my problem?

Orenda sells expensive chemicals that are less effective and sometimes counterproductive. The National Plasterers Council and PebbleTec have published startup procedures:

Plaster Start-Up Guides - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

@onBalance any suggestions on how to recover from this botched PebbleTec startup and get the coloring more even? Only thing I can think of is a careful acid wash. And that has the risk of loosening pebbles if done wrong.

 

[Metalmushpuff]

I have nothing to add, but just wanted to commiserate. Our builder was also less than helpful at startup (I didn’t even know I was supposed to be brushing). My daughter had just broken her arm at school the day the pool was filled, so I was preoccupied and it didn’t even occur to me that we should be doing anything to the pool, honestly. Just assumed they would handle it. During our pool school, they told us to just take a water sample to the pool store and dump in whatever they told us.

Anyways, your build is gorgeous and I am sorry you haven’t been able to really enjoy it yet. I hope the discoloration can be remedied soon. You are in the right place

PS- I highly recommend the TFPro from TFtestkits, if you haven’t ordered a test kit yet.

 

[onBalance]

DigitalCK, your questions are appropriate.
It appears that there may be more than one problem that has occurred with your pool. First, a lot of dirt may have blown into the pool and stained (brown color) the plaster. Second, a poorly performed acid rinse (plaster creme removal) procedure (prior to filling with water) by the plastering company may have occurred causing streaks and blotchy patterns on the plaster surface.

It is very unlikely that improper water treatment or balancing caused these issues nor would perfect water balancing have prevented these issues. It does not appear that algae is the problem either. Further, I am confident that the Orenda startup procedure had nothing to do with causing the above issues.

At this point, IF the current appearance of your pool is unacceptable, and you cannot get the builder to take responsibility, I believe the only way to perhaps improve the appearance of the plaster is to drain the pool and give it a very light acid wash by a competent and experienced company (as mentioned above). There is a trade off with this option, in that an acid treatment generally shortens the life of the plaster somewhat. Also, consider that a uniform appearance is extremely difficult to achieve in this situation. It is very unfortunate that your pool has discolored significantly.

 

[jimbethesda]

Neglect

TFP teaches folks how to manage pool water chemistry so your pool is CRYSTAL CLEAR. But it's self management and doesn't involve pool store and pool services.

If that interests you, start here........https://www.troublefreepool.com/blog/category/pool-school/pool-care-basics/

It also involves very precise testing so be prepared for a learning curve but we will help EVERY step of the way.

One thing I'd like to add. We built our pool about 4 years ago. I fully expected to hire a pool maintenance company, just like I pay someone to cut our grass, clean our house, etc. Before I did, I wanted to learn the science/procedures behind it so I could manage the pool service company correctly.

I found this site, and realized, it's not hard or time consuming. I spend about 10 mins 1-2 times a week testing the water, 10 mins every two weeks (more often in fall and spring) emptying my robot. 5 mins once a month brushing the steps, benches where the robot can't get to. That's it.

My takeaway is, initially it might seem like you'll have to quit your job to maintain your pool, but once you get past the learning curve, it's not really all that time consuming. It will also guarantee your pool is always sparkyly clean and safe to swim. As an added bonus, it's also a lot cheaper!!

 

[DigitalCK]

Just an update - FINALLY got the plaster installer (sub-contractor from builder) to come out, take a look, and immediately said this was an issue due to too much dirt at the beginning (no sod until several weeks after pool startup). Suggested a drain, acid-wash, re-fill. Came out 2 weeks later and did that all in a day and suddenly it looks MUCH better. Probably about 95% of where I expected, with a few other deeper stains or color mismatches here and there from this issue. Not being overly picky at this point and thinking we can just maybe resolve it with some spot acid over time if we really feel like it. Otherwise much happier knowing this was an issue they could fix (once I could get them to actually come out).

 

[duraleigh]

Just an update - FINALLY got the plaster installer (sub-contractor from builder) to come out, take a look, and immediately said this was an issue due to too much dirt at the beginning (no sod until several weeks after pool startup). Suggested a drain, acid-wash, re-fill. Came out 2 weeks later and did that all in a day and suddenly it looks MUCH better. Probably about 95% of where I expected, with a few other deeper stains or color mismatches here and there from this issue. Not being overly picky at this point and thinking we can just maybe resolve it with some spot acid over time if we really feel like it. Otherwise much happier knowing this was an issue they could fix (once I could get them to actually come out).

Sorry to sound harsh but how do you intend to keep it that way? Pool Service? DIY? If you do nothing, it will revert back.