37k gallon Pool. New Filter (Style and Size) and Pump Recommendations Please

[shaffe43]

My old single-speed pump and 36 Sq Ft Nautilus NS DE Filter finally died last season.

It is time to get new stuff starting this season.

My pool specs are close to the ones from this thread:

New Filter & Pump - 20x40 In-Ground 37,000 Gallons

Hello Everyone, I am fairly new to pool ownership. My wife and I bought a house last year that came with a 20x40 in-ground pool (approx. 37,000 gallons). It came with a Sta-Rite Cartridge Filter and a 3/4 HP Hayward pump. We experienced some difficulties getting our pool from green at open to...

www.troublefreepool.com

But that was back in 2019

- Piping 1 1/2"
- 2 Skimmers
- 1 Main Drain
- 3 Returns
- Old Pump - 1 hp single speed - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FNAHCI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
- Old Filter - 36 SQ Ft DE - Pentair Nautilus Plus stainless steel D.E. filter
- I do not have a heater at this time (Eventually plan to)
- Currently, use the "Liquidator" to deliver bleach to the pool. - Amazon.com : Hasa Pool Liquidator C201 Chlorinator, 8 Gallon, 3/8" UPGRADED : Swimming Pool And Spa Supplies : Patio, Lawn & Garden

I have read the pros and cons on sand vs de vs cart vs de cart hybrid and I honestly am not sure which I should go w/

I don't mind doing the work for the DE Filter, cart sounds nice for the hassle.
I have seen varying opinions on how much the filter type actually matters for water clarity (ie cart vs de)

I was leaning towards the cart de hybrid but idk if that is the worst or best of both worlds lol.


Thank you!

 

[Jimrahbe]

43,

It only makes sense to go with a VS pump, the bigger the better. The bigger the pump the slower you can run it and still move a lot of water. The slower you run it the less it costs. I run my 3 HP IntelliFlo 24/7 at 1200 RPM, most of the time, for less than $20 bucks a month. You don't have to run 24/7, but I have a SWCG and like making a little chlorine all the time and skimming all the time.

The filter is another item you can never go to big on. The bigger the filter the less often you need to clean it.

I normally recommend large cartridge filters, but in places where you close the pool in winter. If you normally have to spend a lot of time bringing your pool back to life when you open, it might be nice to be able to backwash, which is not possible with cartridge filters.

Large cartridge filters have dirt simple plumbing, no Multiport valve to leak or break, lower backpressure, and better yet, have no DE to mess with.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[shaffe43]

43,

It only makes sense to go with a VS pump, the bigger the better. The bigger the pump the slower you can run it and still move a lot of water. The slower you run it the less it costs. I run my 3 HP IntelliFlo 24/7 at 1200 RPM, most of the time, for less than $20 bucks a month. You don't have to run 24/7, but I have a SWCG and like making a little chlorine all the time and skimming all the time.

The filter is another item you can never go to big on. The bigger the filter the less often you need to clean it.

I normally recommend large cartridge filters, but in places where you close the pool in winter. If you normally have to spend a lot of time bringing your pool back to life when you open, it might be nice to be able to backwash, which is not possible with cartridge filters.

Large cartridge filters have dirt simple plumbing, no Multiport valve to leak or break, lower backpressure, and better yet, have no DE to mess with.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I am in Pittsburgh, and I have yet to have an opening in 10 years that my water isn't green by the time I get around to opening the pool. Usually also with tadpoles in the hundreds lol.

Though I am getting a new winter cover which will hopefully help w/ that. A ton of debris get through and into the pool.

I 100% was planning on a VS pump.

I think my main concern is mostly the filter type. Do you have any strong opinions on some thing like this?

Quad D.E.® Cartridge Style Filter

The Highest Water Clarity with the Lowest Amount of Fuss. Quad D.E. Pool filter combines the finest pool filtration available for the most sparkling clear water with the convenience and easy-cleaning features usually found only in a cartridge filter. Four easily accessible and removable D.E...

www.pentair.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

If I were going with a DE, I would not go with the cartridge DE filters. I'd go with the grid style and 60 sq. ft.

Let's see what Matt has to say, I pretty sure he has a Quad 100. Calling @JoyfulNoise

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[shaffe43]

Also to be clear, I am fine going with a cartridge system if that is what seems best.

Once I get the water cleaned up and balanced, I don't have to backwash almost ever.

If I were to go for a cart system I would probably lean towards this guy:

Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, 520 sq ft

Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, 520 sq ft. Hurry and purchase today at Doheny's Pool Supplies Fast

www.doheny.com

If I were to go for a DE / Cart system I would probably go for this one:

Pentair EC-188594 Quad DE 100 sq. ft. Cartridge Style DE Pool Filter - Limited Warranty | Leslie's Pool Supplies

The Pentair Quad DE In-Ground Pool D.E. Filter contains 4 cartridge style DE filter elements instead of the standard curved DE grids.

lesliespool.com

Pump would be this pump: (I am having a hard time finding the standard VS in stock. It also seems to be more expensive)

Pentair IntelliFlo VSF Pump, 3.95 THP

Shopping for Pentair IntelliFlo VSF Pump? Doheny's has Pentair IntelliFlo VSF Pump in stock now at the guaranteed lowest price.

www.doheny.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

The VSF can be set up to run as a VS pump or a VF pump or both.

95% of pool owners do not need the VF function. I suggest that you initial set it up as a VS pump and run it for a year. After the year is up, I'll bet you won't find any reason to use the VF option.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I would NOT go with a spiral grid style DE filter ... they are a nightmare to take apart, clean and reassemble without leaks. They also weigh a TON when wet and you have to take the entire assembly out first before you can individually disassemble the panels. They have only slightly better head loss than the new style cartridge DE filters (Pentair QuadDE). The cartridge style uses 4 special woven cartridges that hold the DE in place and each one is easily removed from the filter when it's opened for cleaning. It is very easy to disassemble and reassemble a QuadDE and each cartridge weighs a lot less than a giant grid assembly of the same filtration surface area.

Honestly though, I'm not going to replace my DE filter when it needs to be replaced. I'm going to go with a cartridge filter. I'm just tired of messing around with DE and the filtration performance of a cartridge filter is good enough.

 

[shaffe43]

sorry I edited my post above before I saw your post @JoyfulNoise

I would go w/ the DE QUAD 100 if I were to do DE Cartridge.

I think I am leaning towards just using regular cartridges. ( C&C 520)

I will add a 3way valve to allow me to vacuum to waste.

I am not sure if I have the physical space to add in a second 3way to allow for re-circ.

The way I look at it, the worst thing that will happen is ill have to clean the filter a few times during opening.

Thank you!

 

[shaffe43]

S,

The VSF can be set up to run as a VS pump or a VF pump or both.

95% of pool owners do not need the VF function. I suggest that you initial set it up as a VS pump and run it for a year. After the year is up, I'll bet you won't find any reason to use the VF option.

Thanks,

Jim R.

same as below for some reason i did not see the replies to the thread and I edited my post.

The only reason I was leaning towards VSF is that it is more readily available and actually seems cheaper.

 

[shaffe43]

Also question for you guys. If the suction and return lines coming from the pool are 1.5" do I gain anything at all by running 2" for the pump filter etc?

I don't think I will, but figured I would ask.

 

[proavia]

I would go with a cartridge filter just so I don't have to hassle with DE use and disposal.
Get the largest filter you can afford. You can't go wrong with the Pentair CCP 520 you listed.

Do you have automation, or plan to add it in the future? If so, a VS pump of the same brand as the automation will work best with that automation system. Ask here with any questions before purchase.

 

[shaffe43]

I would go with a cartridge filter just so I don't have to hassle with DE use and disposal.
Get the largest filter you can afford. You can't go wrong with the Pentair CCP 520 you listed.

Do you have automation, or plan to add it in the future? If so, a VS pump of the same brand as the automation will work best with that automation system. Ask here with any questions before purchase.

I may plan on adding automation in the future if/when we get a heater.

Thank you guys for your help. I think I am going to go with Pentair cartridge C&C 520 and the Pentair 3HP VSF

 

[shaffe43]

Also question for you guys. If the suction and return lines coming from the pool are 1.5" do I gain anything at all by running 2" for the pump filter etc?

I don't think I will, but figured I would ask.

Searching before asking helps

(1) Equipment pad plumbing 1.5 or 2” | Trouble Free Pool

 

[proavia]

Not really - you will see little if an gain in efficiency.
1.5" pipe and fittings are also a bit less expensive than 2". May sure all pipe and fittings are schedule 40 - no DWV stuff. Also, sweep 90* elbows are not needed - very little if any difference in efficiency.

 

[shaffe43]

Thank you!

 

[Jimrahbe]

do I gain anything at all by running 2" for the pump filter etc?

S,

You won't gain any better water flow, but I found that for ease of plumbing it makes sense to use the same size pipe throughout the pad. For me this was because all my new equipment was 2" while the pipes between the pool and the pad were 1.5"

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[shaffe43]

This is a picture of my current setup. Do you guys have any recommendations for things to keep in mind when replumbing this?

1) Should I keep individual valves for the inputs and outputs? Or perhaps go with a Jandy 3Way for the inputs and maybe keep the individual for the 3 outputs?
1a) I am in Pittsburgh so I will be tearing this all down each winter so ease of disassembly is key
1b) I am going to put in a 3way after the pump before the filter so I can vacuum to waste.
2) I never liked the 2 90s back to back on the output side, should that just be a slope up, or would that really not make much of a difference?
3) Is there any reason to have a check valve between the pump and the suction side on a cartridge filter? If I stuck w/ DE I was going to put one in so DE wouldn't leak back into the pool.
4) Since it is a variable speed pump do i need a flow meter to make sure i am turning over the water fast enough?
5) Any other random thoughts or tips based on the location of my inputs and outputs

Thank you!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Since it is a variable speed pump do i need a flow meter to make sure i am turning over the water fast enough?

S,

No, you do not need a flow meter for many reasons, but the main one is that the idea that you have to "turnover" x amount of water per day is just a myth.. Just run the pump long enough to make the chlorine you pool needs and you will be fine.

We don't close our pools in Texas, but don't those ball valves help isolate the lines when the pool is closed??

I personally like individual 2-way Jandy valves on the pump inputs rather than using a 3-way valves.

I am going to put in a 3way after the pump before the filter so I can vacuum to waste.

I like that idea!!

VS pump almost always run at a low RPM. An extra few 90's won't make any difference in the overall operation.

) Is there any reason to have a check valve between the pump and the suction side on a cartridge filter? If I stuck w/ DE I was going to put one in so DE wouldn't leak back into the pool.

No reason.. And... you will have 3-way valve there so when you want to remove the pump lid, you can just use the 3-way to shut off the filter so it will not drain into the pool.

Thanks,

Jim R.