3 weeks of SLAM, still cloudy :(

[ShedSquirrel]

3 weeks of notes to go over, exhausted from this pool - will try to remember all relevant info. Seems like info overkill, but this seems like a pretty detailed oriented community. Here goes:

- Intex 20’ round with sand filter pump
- used to take down the old 18’ intex with inflatable ring every fall. Was a hassle. Wanted to try to leave the new one up, even through New England winter. Drained to below holes, stored hoses and pumps inside for winter. Hopes for best.
- left uncovered over winter, underneath several oaks. Not smart. Scooped best I could through November. Scooped out a freshly dead squirrel one day. Gross.
- pool was brown/black at start of SLAM in late May
- initially ran just my old cartridge pump from lid 18’ intex for fear of choking sand filter to death.
- guesstimated water volume at 4800gal
- scooped and scooped and scooped and then scooped some more for days and days.
- gallons upon gallons of bleach. Water improved from black to brown to tan to cloudy white to cloudy blue. scooped some more
- filled from approx 4800gal to 7400gal, hooked up sand filter pump
- slow progress for a week. Forgot I should brush too
- brushed for days and days. Multiple times a day. Ran both pumps. Attached photo shows cartridge pump with extra long hose I weighted down to try and get it to suck the bad stuff off bottom
- I have gone through LOTS of r0871 reagent.
- CC is consistently low, below 0.5ppm
- PoolMath has been asking for FC in neighborhood of 12 to 15 depending on water level and CYA amount. CYA is currently around 30 after fresh water add from 4800 to 7400gal. Was around 50 before. That test is sketchy. Not impressed. My wife and I see black dots at different levels. But confident now it’s 30 or lower.
- FC during day plummets during day presumably with low CYA and sun exposure. Adding around 6cups of 10% to keep at level, though during the week - tough to do every hour or two unless this pool becomes my full time job.
-pH tough to read accurately with super high FC. Using other kit with chlorine neutralizer, seems to be around 7.5
-CH is super low at 30. Vinyl pool though, does it matter?
-TA is 100 after adding a couple cups of baking soda yesterday

Planning to spend weekend brushing and brushing some more. Was encouraged yesterday as it seemed I could see more of the brush head below water surface, but discouraged this morning that some cloudiness has returned. I could also just be imagining things at this point. I see this pool in my sleep it seems.

Sand has been deep cleaned, twice. Second time very effectively. That was good. Sand was gross. Hopefully that will help. Secondary cartridge filter doesn’t clog as quickly anymore, and with CC being so consistently low - I’m wondering if this cloudiness is something different and if it will ever clean up with current method.

I need some expert suggestions!

FC = 11.5
CC < 0.5
pH = unreliable at FC >10, but I think it’s 7.5
TA=100
CH = 30
Bleach = endless application of 10%
Shoulders = tired
patience = low
Using Taylor K2006 kit to help document my saga.

Thanks

 

[Texas Splash]

So let's go over a few things and try to reassure you.
- If you and your wife disagree with the dot viewing, go with the wife's number. Less problems that way.
- You ARE making progress, but a swamp like yours is going to take time.
- The deep cleans of sand were good choices.
- Don't worry about the CH, TA, or pH right now. Focus on the FC (12).
- Continue the brushing, aspirin, brushing, and more aspirin.
- With all the backwashing, be sure the CYA doesn't fall below 30. If later you accidently increase the CYA to 40, it's not the worse thing,. Just be sure to increase the FC to 16 if that happens.

Hang in there. You're making great progress.

 

[Texas Splash]

 

[Newdude]

If you and your wife disagree with the dot viewing, go with the wife's number. Less problems that way.

+1. You are allowed to be happy, or right. You are only allowed one choice.

Hang in there. Even with 2 filter systems you are grossly undersized, It's going to take time. If it helps you feel better while waiting, my 500 square foot cartridge filter cost over $1900 last year. I understand why they didn't toss one in the box your pool came in. You probably would have bought the other model if they did.

So. Patience is the name of the game, and this stage has tested the patience of anyone who ever walked your shoes, even the ones with big filters.

In New England, you are also battling pollen right now. I would cloud up every year for 3 weeks just from that. It doesn't eat FC though, so I believe you have more killing to do. And even when the FC completely holds, you still keep it at SLAM until the water is clear, but it is much easier to do at that point.

Stay the course. You got this.

 

[ShedSquirrel]

Thanks all for encouragement that I’m not wasting my time. I was worried as well about CYA falling too low. (I swear I can still see that Dang dot. Is it there? Am I here?). Added a couple 3” tabs the other day. For two reasons - I cannot babysit this 8,000gal swamp all day and work the job that pays me. So I employed those couple tabs to trickle in some extra chlorine and stabilizer to fight some of the loss during day. I can’t waste that precious CYA test reagent - so for pool math I’ve been guesstimating that CYA is in neighborhood of 31-32 if it was 30 previously. For such a huge variable in determining prescribed FC for SLAM, I’m really surprised there isn’t a more accurate test for CYA. I mean we’re adding little pipet droplets of reagent to determine FC and CC down to the decimal point - but it’s all for nothing if the CYA measurement is off by an amount that the test doesn’t have resolution to read down to. This would definitely fail a Gage R&R study.

I feel like my eyeball method of bleach to add back in the brown days of swamp was more accurate.

Beer break over. Back to brushing

Question - whatcha all recommend for mesh covers so I don’t have to do this next year?

Thanks again!

 

[Newdude]

(I swear I can still see that Dang dot. Is it there? Am I here?).

Maybe that's part of the problem. Do a lightning quick glance. Yes or no. Don't look more than a flash or your brain will find it either way. Wanna see your brain *stop* lying to you ? Look at your nose. It's been there this whole time. Your brain lies like a rug. Fill only to the 10s as you always round up anyway.

Also, you can suck it back up and test many times over and over. Get 2 out of three to agree and call it. Shake it again if the bottle sits for a few minutes.

whatcha all recommend for a cover

Use a tarp. They come in several colors now and you can pick the one you like the best. The mesh cover has no real advantage for an above ground pool. You could also get a pricey 'pool cover' that's an overpriced tarp, and it may last more than 1 year, but it also may not.

 

[ShedSquirrel]

How can tell how much of haze is old dead stuff vs new dead stuff?

My CC is consistently under 0.5 and I pass overnight chlorine loss more often than not (last night was rare occurrence it dropped 2ppm). Only FC loss seems to be coming from sunshine. Maddening to not know know if the haze is from never ending new algae, or just from stirring up 7mo of now annihilated leaf debris. I keep wondering more and more if it’s the latter. Even after three weeks - after a session of heavy brushing, I’ll still see some old leave debris floating by. Worth it at this point to add a tiny bit of clarifier? Might be easier to further troubleshoot if I can see bottom of pool for once. I don’t mind deep cleaning filter again afterwards. That wasn’t too bad a job. (So long as you don’t disturb the laterals and let the sand sneak underneath and raise the post accidentally so you can’t reattach multivalve. Lesson learned after hand scooping all the sand out!)

Pollen definitely slowed down the first two weeks of SLAM, but I judging by the pollen meter in my eyeballs and sinuses - I think the pollen is starting to subside.

Been brushing so hard in super chlorinated water for so long that the bristles of brush are starting to flake off into water!

Forward progress is encouraging, but at this rate of diminishing return - will be mid-July before water is swimmable.

 

[Texas Splash]

If you have deep cleaned recently you shouldn't have to do it again. Backwashing should suffice. But as noted above, if you are passing the OCLT (with the exception of that one) the filters may be struggling. I wouldn't use the clarifier yet. How about showing us another pic of the water?

 

[ShedSquirrel]

Thanks again for advice.

Need for backwashing past week has almost been negligible. I’ve still been doing once every day or two, just cause it feels right to do. Last week was backwashing about 3x a day. But admittedly, forgot to run rinse cycle afterwards. Sand is super clean now after Friday deep clean. Only mentioned possibly deep cleaning again if I ended added clarifier. I cleaned the pleats real well today on the little old secondary cartridge pump. But even that has kept real good flow past few days. I have the extra hose in photo weighed down with a gallon jug, with an old screen cover jury rigged with hose clamps. I alternate attaching that to one of the return lines of the sand pump and the cartridge pump. Used to have to clear the leaves and sludge in that daily - but it’s been clean past few days. Going to try to kee FC at 13 or 14 for a couple days and see if maybe that helps. It looked best this morning when it was above 12.

Brushing used to kick up a pretty mucky cloud, but not so much past few days. Brushing is maybe kicking up a little bit of extra cloudiness. Guess I’ll take that as progress, even if overall visibility appears unchanged.

For progress, water level is at 38”, I can just about see the 28” for resultant 10” of clarity. Didn’t think to measure depth of vision till now - I’ll keep that mind rest of week.

Weird thing I’ve noticed - in brightest sun, water appear cloudier. Could be cause sun is sapping my FC, or that whatever is suspended in there is particularly reflective and making it look cloudier than it does when less bright.

 

[wireform]

If you have any of the debris suxh as old leaves on the bottom it will hold the slam up. You can try to add DE to the sand filter by adding just enough to Increase the psi "1" psi above your known clean filter pressure but will need to babysit it cuz the filter pressure will rise more rapidly as it's catching the finer stuff.

 

[Texas Splash]

Brushing used to kick up a pretty mucky cloud, but not so much past few days. Brushing is maybe kicking up a little bit of extra cloudiness. Guess I’ll take that as progress,

Very-much so. In fact, you may be getting to the point the water makes a huge turn in teh next 24-48 hrs. It happens.

Didn’t think to measure depth of vision till now - I’ll keep that mind rest of week.

Good idea.

Weird thing I’ve noticed - in brightest sun, water appear cloudier.

Could just be more wind stirring things up or refraction of debris suspended in the water.

 

[ShedSquirrel]

going through lots of bleach between noon and 3 when sun is at its peak. Worth putting the cover on?

 

[Mdragger88]

U can while u are at work or whatever to help w/ fc loss. The cc’s will build up under the cover so take it off at night so they can escape. If u think u are anywhere above 30ppm cya call it 40 & up your slam level to 16.
Have u been vacuuming to waste? If not u should- less work on the filter. To prevent draining the pool too quickly u can siphon vacuum instead of using the pump. This allows your pump to keep filtering while u do so & u get junk out. Go slow yet efficiently as to not lose too much water.

 

[ShedSquirrel]

Hmm, hadn’t thought bout that. Don’t have a vacuum for the pump yet. With the older 18’, I’d just get a good whirlpool going after a few laps with the strainer wand, then let the cyclone action deposit the debris to the middle for easy removal. Vacuum wasn’t needed much. Just me and kid on screen duty once a day. I would occasionally run a siphon off the garden hose to get tough spots like folds in the liner.

I’d be all for trying the siphon garden hose trick to suck up the poison from the bottom. Safe to get in and do that if I let the FC crash back down, or too risky to let the FC drop? I’d worry that blindly tossing the hose in might not work. Pool is pretty clean now - hardly any of any debris floats around now after aggressive brushing. It’s not so much dirty now - just hazy!
Chances of a second rando dead squirrel are super low with weeks and weeks of brushing- but I’d know for sure if I hop in and check! I got plenty of bleach to decontaminate with later…

Visibility actually dropped today. Oscillated +\- an inch of clarity depending on pre post brushing- and it’s also been pretty windy today.

 

[ShedSquirrel]

Psi on the sand filter pump has been staying real low, too. Not like first couple weeks with constant backwashing. I think whatever particles this haze is from a a not super chokey for the sand or the little backup cartridge pump

 

[Newdude]

You stopped the exponential algae growth in its tracks. Now the filter can just do its thing without being overwhelmed. It will still be quicker until you're finished, but nothing like you had.

 

[ShedSquirrel]

U can while u are at work or whatever to help w/ fc loss. The cc’s will build up under the cover so take it off at night so they can escape. If u think u are anywhere above 30ppm cya call it 40 & up your slam level to 16.
Have u been vacuuming to waste? If not u should- less work on the filter. To prevent draining the pool too quickly u can siphon vacuum instead of using the pump. This allows your pump to keep filtering while u do so & u get junk out. Go slow yet efficiently as to not lose too much water.

Oh yeah. Just checked CYA again. It jumped. Those two little plucky pucks I added did more than I thought. I see the dot a bit at 50, but not so much at 40. Upping to 16… . Buying bleach by pallet this weekend!

Seriously considering covering tonight. Even at 40CYA - can’t compete with sun

 

[wireform]

Add some DE to the filter to hasten the clarity.

 

[Mdragger88]

If u can - wait until the morning to deploy the cover- at night the only thing eating fc is the algae

 

[ShedSquirrel]

Wasn’t able to get cover on. FC crashed to under 5ppm while at work today. Clarity is about the same. Visibility down to about 9-10” of the 38” of total water. Pool math says another near gallon of 10% bleach to get back to 16. Zero progress past 3 days. Seemingly just pouring good bleach down the drain with this exercise. Will seek out some DE at local hardware store (?) and maybe climb into pool after dinner now that FC is low, and whatever is in there has already been nuked to death, and verify that there’s not some zombie creature hiding in the middle depths. By Thursday, it might be give up and get clarifier time. This pool is gonna open next Wednesday- and I’ll need about 5 days to fill it slowly if refill requires.

Question I’ve been wondering - my pool has never once been green. It went clear to brown over the winter. Skipped green. Is it necessarily algae that’s the cause of the cloudiness?