New Pool In Central Florida

[CincyRed]

With all the plumbing being 2" I hope there won't be any issue with the reduction at the drain.
Not to complicate anything anymore but are your returns looped together? Maybe I'm looking at the pics wrong :?:
From your pics it looks like at least 2 of the returns are on one line. The last return on that line will have more pressure than the other return. By looping the returns together you are creating an equalized pressure and all of the returns will blow the same.
Is your waterfall one of the 3 returns or is it separate?

I do not believe the returns are looped. The waterfall is separate.

 

[crookm11]

Attached is a diagram of what I think your return lines look like based off of the pics you have posted and that prompted my question about the returns. The green line is my proposed loop for the returns. I may be way off base, forgive me if I am. I have just heard of people talking about how some returns are stronger and softer and creating circulation issues in their pools.

 

[CincyRed]

Attached is a diagram of what I think your return lines look like based off of the pics you have posted and that prompted my question about the returns. The green line is my proposed loop for the returns. I may be way off base, forgive me if I am. I have just heard of people talking about how some returns are stronger and softer and creating circulation issues in their pools.

I definitely am going to talk to the PB about this.
I really appreciate you taking the time to illustrate your point.
Just for ease of reading I converted your PDF to JPG to post it.

BTW, you were correct in all of your assumptions.
Thank You.

 

[crookm11]

I'm glad I could help.
I have just a kiddie pool right now but when I get my "Real" pool built, my PB won't like me....LOL

Keep the pictures coming.

 

[CincyRed]

I just ran across this diagram by mas985 in another topic, http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-pool-plumbing-layout-t28324.html

showing returns equalized by different methods.
Hopefully, my PB plumber has equalized the returns with the split configuration (either by accident or on purpose).
But I will find out.

 

[crookm11]

I have seen that photo and read the topic that is also what sparked my concern.

When you ask the PB the question his answer will probably be yes it is done correctly but I think it is not. The return line that has the 2 returns on it are NOT in the split configuration. I added a pic with changes to show a correct split configuation for those 2 returns. You want egual length of pipe from a "T" to the returns. I think you would get a better result by just adding the short loop of pipe.

 

[CincyRed]

I have seen that photo and read the topic that is also what sparked my concern.

When you ask the PB the question his answer will probably be yes it is done correctly but I think it is not. The return line that has the 2 returns on it are NOT in the split configuration. I added a pic with changes to show a correct split configuation for those 2 returns. You want egual length of pipe from a "T" to the returns. I think you would get a better result by just adding the short loop of pipe.

Maybe you, or someone else can say exactly what would happen if the plumbing ran as is. I am wondering just how loud I need to speak to the PB about this subject, or is it just the preferred method of doing it and will not make that much of a difference.
I am just trying to avoid that blank stare from the builder as I try and explain to him what I want done.

 

[crookm11]

I'm not sure exactly how to explain but I will try.

If you took off the return at the deep end and just went with the return at the steps and the return at the far end of the other line they would have about the same pressure because the runs of pipe are about the same. Same length off pipe = same pressure.

Lets remove the return away from the steps and have just the one in the deep end and the return at the end of the run. The way the plumbing is set up now the return pressure at the end return will be higher than the return pressure at the deep end. I don't know how to explain this I just know this to be true.

Now lets add the return at the steps and also add the short loop to the other end return. This setup will provide equal pressure on all 3 returns. The loop will fill up with water before the water will shoot out of the returns. Once the loop is filled all three returns will release water at the same time creating 3 equal retuns.

I hope I explaind this right.
I hope someone else jumps in and helps out!!!

 

[CincyRed]

I'm not sure exactly how to explain but I will try.

If you took off the return at the deep end and just went with the return at the steps and the return at the far end of the other line they would have about the same pressure because the runs of pipe are about the same. Same length off pipe = same pressure.

Lets remove the return away from the steps and have just the one in the deep end and the return at the end of the run. The way the plumbing is set up now the return pressure at the end return will be higher than the return pressure at the deep end. I don't know how to explain this I just know this to be true.

Now lets add the return at the steps and also add the short loop to the other end return. This setup will provide equal pressure on all 3 returns. The loop will fill up with water before the water will shoot out of the returns. Once the loop is filled all three returns will release water at the same time creating 3 equal retuns.

I hope I explaind this right.
I hope someone else jumps in and helps out!!!

I think I understand that aspect of it.
I know in an ideal world this would be the way to go, but I was just wondering how MUCH of a difference it would make in the world I am in now vs. the ideal world.
Not trying to be a smart Rear, just trying to get everything straight before I talk to PB about it.

 

[crookm11]

I would be thinking the same thing. Is it worth the possible trouble with the PB?

How deep is your deep end?
With your current setup the deep end, I think, would have poor circulation because of the lack of pressure at the return. I would want more pressure their because it is deeper and don't want possible stagnation in the water, I know you have a main drain but I would rather be safe than sorry.

You have heard this saying, Have and not need is better than needing and not have.

Let us know what the PB says.

 

[lbridges]

It's possible not everyone looks at these new pool build threads - I would suggest a PM to mas985.

 

[mas985]

It's possible not everyone looks at these new pool build threads.

Since the forum has gotten more popular and the posts are much more numerous, there aren't enough hours in the day to go through everyone. At least for me.

I think what has been suggested for the returns will certainly help to equalize the flow rate in the returns. But the way it is plumbed right now will not be all that bad either. The furthest return is on it's own leg which will help some to equalize the flow rate. It isn't all that critical to have equal flow rates out of the returns but if you give me the lengths of each leg, I can tell you what the overall balance of the plumbing is going to be. There might a simple change that will make both you and your PB happy.

But one thing I would insist on is using the same pipe diameter for the main drain. It looks like the PB downsized the pipe two sizes which there really should not be a reason to do that and many reasons not to do that.

Also, I can't tell but is the skimmer run a separate run and do you only have one skimmer?

 

[CincyRed]

It's possible not everyone looks at these new pool build threads.

Since the forum has gotten more popular and the posts are much more numerous, there aren't enough hours in the day to go through everyone. At least for me.

I think what has been suggested for the returns will certainly help to equalize the flow rate in the returns. But the way it is plumbed right now will not be all that bad either. The furthest return is on it's own leg which will help some to equalize the flow rate. It isn't all that critical to have equal flow rates out of the returns but if you give me the lengths of each leg, I can tell you what the overall balance of the plumbing is going to be. There might a simple change that will make both you and your PB happy.

But one thing I would insist on is using the same pipe diameter for the main drain. It looks like the PB downsized the pipe two sizes which there really should not be a reason to do that and many reasons not to do that.

Also, I can't tell but is the skimmer run a separate run and do you only have one skimmer?

There is only one skimmer. There is a separate pipe for the skimmer and the main drain to the pad.
Here is a diagram showing the approximate lengths.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[mas985]

Are you sure about the lengths? Proportionally, it doesn't look correct based just on the picture. The steps return looks to be longer than the sum of the right side. You have only 25' total on the left and 55' on the right.

 

[crookm11]

Are you sure about the lengths? Proportionally, it doesn't look correct based just on the picture. The steps return looks to be longer than the sum of the right side. You have only 25' total on the left and 55' on the right.

I would say his measurements are correct. I drew the picture and I know it was not to scale. It was just to clarify the location of the returns.

 

[mas985]

Step return will have about 48% of the flow rates, the first return on the right about 33% of the flow rate and the furthest on the right about 19% of the flow rate. That may help keep the steps clean but if you are looking for more even returns, then a loop on the backside would probably help some to even it out and shouldn't be all that hard for the PB to put in as long as there are trenches already.

 

[CincyRed]

Step return will have about 48% of the flow rates, the first return on the right about 33% of the flow rate and the furthest on the right about 19% of the flow rate. That may help keep the steps clean but if you are looking for more even returns, then a loop on the backside would probably help some to even it out and shouldn't be all that hard for the PB to put in as long as there are trenches already.

The trenches are filled in already. Is it worth the trouble to try and have the PB re-dig and put in the loop? Or is it something that overall will go unnoticed?

Thanks very much for all of your time and trouble in answering these questions!

 

[mas985]

It is hard to say if it would end up better one way or another. The flow dynamics in a pool are quite complex but because the skimmer is at the opposite side of the pool from the steps, it might actually be better to have a little more coming out of the step return.

 

[CincyRed]

The concrete decking company came out today to pour the coping around the pool.
But first I am showing a ditch that I had to dig by hand in order to plumb the auto leveler into the irrigation water meter instead of the house water meter like the PB would have done. (cheaper water, NOT reclaimed)
Before you think big deal, it went another 30 feet beyond that fence. hehe

I just had to show this to prove that I am doing something on this pool build.

Now the coping construction photos.

Next they will texture and paint the coping.

Hopefully they can get the waterfall done soon.

 

[mx702]

What did you decide with the returns?