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Thread: I don't want to winterize

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    orthofish's Avatar
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    I don't want to winterize

    Hey all,
    Haven't been on in awhile. My pool has been crystal clear all summer thanks to TFP
    Now I have some questions. Imagine that
    I live 30 miles N.E. of Nashville. We do get temps in the winter below freezing. Just not for a long period of time. Could I not winterize my pool and just run the pump when the nights are going to be below freezing. I know some people here drip their faucets when it gets really cold. Kinda the same theory????? I do have 4 deck jets also.
    I will have a 9x12 equipmen building finished hopefully next weekend(will post pics soon) and could even wrap my exposed pipes that will be inside it. I will have electricity in it also and could even run a heater if need be.
    I just don't want to have to blow out pipes and drain and all that stuff.
    If the above thought will work, how will the chemistry of my water change over the winter? Should not be much chlorine use since algae doesn't grow in cold weather.
    I'm sure I'm overlooking something in this senario, so enlighten me
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    orthofish's Avatar
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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Another question. Why does everyone remove the ladder and handrail during the winter???
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Here in northern California (central valley) the worst temps are usually during the final two weeks of the year. Up to 3-4 days of 30-35° F. daytime highs, the same or a bit below at night. Though not strictly necessary, I usually permit the Freeze Protection mode to kick in during those periods... almost always this happens after 2 in the morning and it turns itself off before 9 am. (About 5 minutes before its normal daytime run - hah!)

    If the weather in Nashville is similar, that may be all you need. But if it goes to 25 (or below) and stays there for more than a few days, you'll be running your system 24/7 and may need a heater too. That could prove quite expensive.

    Chlorine consumption goes way down in winter, whether you close or not. But if you remain open, you'll need to test, treat, circulate, vacuum, backwash, net the surface and empty skimmer/filter baskets -- the same regimen as during the summer/fall season. Deck jets could also be suspectible to more than a few nights of freezing weather, so consider this.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    orthofish's Avatar
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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Thanks polyvue. I'm still on the fence about this.
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    orthofish's Avatar
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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    When blowing out the lines from the pad, from what I've read you do it from the pump. That means you have to blow air from the pump and through the filter to get to the line you're wanting to blow out right?????
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    I have to remove the ladder to get the cover on, and I remove the handrails to make sure that I CAN remove them(it also makes it easier to move stuff around on deck.) You can put your MPV to "Bypass" or "Re-Circulate" to blow out lines from the pump, you wouldn't want to blow through the filter, would you?
    My understanding, which is very limited, is that moving water won't freeze as quickly as still water will, but it will freeze. I can remember when the "Mighty Ohio" froze over at Evansville, and people were walking across it in February of `78. Pressurized water is slower to freeze, and makes a bigger mess when a broken line thaws.
    I've seen that most exterior water lines at manufacturing facilities in my area are "freeze protected" with electric heat-trace and insulation. Considering that you probably have very little above ground exposed pipe to worry about, it would probably be cheaper then a broken pipe repair. The real problem is the area not above ground, but above the frost/freeze line underground. Draining below the return lines in a pool usually gets below that line around here.
    I don't know what kind of control system, if any, that you have, but if you have an accurate water temperature reading and a small heater, I would think that you could maintain above freezing for the periods of extreme cold that you see.
    I would also caution not to rely on electricity, unless you have a back-up generator, because I seem to remember an ice storm that paralyzed western KY last year.
    Best Wishes and Good Luck!!!
    22 x 40 IG vinyl lined, 23,570 gal.
    1 hp. Pac-Fab Challenger pump 300# sand filter
    Intex 8110 SWG, Hayward CL220 offline feeder
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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Quote Originally Posted by New2Me
    You can put your MPV to "Bypass" or "Re-Circulate" to blow out lines from the pump, you wouldn't want to blow through the filter, would you?
    My pool equipment pad does not provide the ability to Bypass the filter or Re-Circulate. (Silly, huh?) If orthofish has a similar setup, this may have prompted the question.

    O.Fish -- If I'm correct in my assumption then you may want to remove the cartridge filter entirely for closing and blow out return lines from a PVC junction that comes AFTER the filter on the return line. On my system, just to give an example, after the pump there is the cart filter, a ball joint and 1" supply/return lines for the heater, a SWG and a multiport valve w/actuator to contend with. So it would be a multi-step process to clear the lines, ending finally with blowing out pool and spa return lines just as they enter the ground from the pad.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    orthofish's Avatar
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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    I have no way of bypassing the filter to blow the lines out from the pad. Could I just take my cart filters out and blow from the return port on the filter???
    The only exposed pipe I have is inside my building. Even with a power outage, which is rare for any length of time, but not impossible, I could use a propane heater in my building to keep the pipes warm.
    Any help or ideas on this is appreciated. I really didn't want to winterize, but am second guessing myself now.
    Removing the ladder and handrail has nothing to do with freezing????
    Thanks
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Quote Originally Posted by orthofish
    I have no way of bypassing the filter to blow the lines out from the pad. Could I just take my cart filters out and blow from the return port on the filter???

    Sounds reasonable to me!

    The only exposed pipe I have is inside my building. Even with a power outage, which is rare for any length of time, but not impossible, I could use a propane heater in my building to keep the pipes warm.

    That would work... assuming that this is not residential space and there's adequate ventilation.

    Removing the ladder and handrail has nothing to do with freezing????

    New2Me said they remove them in order to fit a cover on the pool. Not aware of any other reason to remove them related to freezing, but stay tuned... someone here may have a different take on this.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Quote Originally Posted by orthofish
    I have no way of bypassing the filter to blow the lines out from the pad. Could I just take my cart filters out and blow from the return port on the filter???
    The only exposed pipe I have is inside my building. Even with a power outage, which is rare for any length of time, but not impossible, I could use a propane heater in my building to keep the pipes warm.
    Any help or ideas on this is appreciated. I really didn't want to winterize, but am second guessing myself now.
    Removing the ladder and handrail has nothing to do with freezing????
    Thanks
    I have some exposed pipes. Some winters I have run electric heating tape along them and looped around the valves then insulated, arranging it so that I could get to and operate the valves. I've only semi-closed my pool a couple of times. It is harder to do when your pump station is below the pool.

    I would think a propane heater would be great for emergencies. I've used one down at my pump station when electricity has been off. The big ones that look like a sunflower and hook to a 20 gallon propane tank put out a lot of heat that spreads out. Another option would be to get a propane lantern that can be hooked up to a 20 lb tank via a multi port pole that has the fitting on top for lantern and two more ports for grill, burner, etc. I got mine at Wally World. The lanterns put out a lot of heat. I've used them for small green houses. The small propane tanks will run out in a few hours so that is not the best option. Also, you do have to have adequate air when using any of the propane appliances. I found that out the first really cold snap when I used some small portable propane heaters in very tightly closed green houses. They went out in middle of night at 20 F. Needless to say I did lose a few plants.

    In the 23 years we've lived out here, during a few really rare winters, we've actually had ice in the pool but that is very rare.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Do you mean disconnect the filter entirely, right? where the plumbing leaves the filter should be a place to hook up shopvac or whatever to blow out the lines.

    Make sure you clean and dry your carts properly before you store them for the winter, they will get moldy otherwise.

    Is it possible to have the builder come out and discuss winterizing options with you? Perhaps he has some ideas.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Do you mean disconnect the filter entirely, right? where the plumbing leaves the filter should be a place to hook up shopvac or whatever to blow out the lines.

    Make sure you clean and dry your carts properly before you store them for the winter, they will get moldy otherwise.

    Is it possible to have the builder come out and discuss winterizing options with you? Perhaps he has some ideas.
    No not disconnect the filter. Just take the cartriges out and with the top off blow from inside the filter out to the pipes. If I don't winterize the carts will stay.
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    The only thing I'm really worried about not being below the freeze line is the deck jets. Now, does this sound doable????
    Turn off the valves to all my deck jets.
    Remove the jet thingys at the concrete surface which will expose the pipe coming to my jets. Stick a hose of some kind down in there and syphon out the water and pour antifreeze down in the pipes.
    I'm not really worried about the return and skimmer lines cause they are below the freeze line. If it got really,really cold I could just run my pump.
    I'm going to put insulation in my pool house. Barring an electrical outage, I should be o.k. with the pipes coming out of the ground in it. As I said, I could always use a 20G propane tank to heat it if need be.
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    orthofish's Avatar
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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    .

    Is it possible to have the builder come out and discuss winterizing options with you? Perhaps he has some ideas.
    Lawd no!!!!!!!! If you remember my build, I had a ton of trouble getting them to do this right I have a slight leak at a connection to one of my deck jets and I will take care of it myself. I hope to never see them again.
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    I live in middle Tennesse and we do not close up our pool. We enjoy the pool all year even if we aren't swimming in it. You just have to keep an eye on the weather and run the pump when temperatures are going to drop below freezing. I run the pump for a couple of hours here and there to keep things stirred up. I plan to install a Freeze Protection Timer this fall so that I don't have to keep tabs on the weather.

    The disadvantages for me for not closing are increased cost of electricity through the winter. Although I estimate it only costs about an extra $100-$150 for the winter. I also have to deal with a bunch of trees adjacent to the pool dropping TONS of leaves in the fall. A bit of a hassel to clean them out.

    The advantages for me are $ savings on cover/chems/refilling in spring/etc. I think this about washes the extra electricity cost. I get to enjoy the pool all winter. I don't have the time and effort to blow out lines, plug everything, lower water, and then get it up and running again in the spring. I always hated cleaning that pool cover in the spring when I was a kid. We have also been known to get a warm spell early in the year and we even got in the pool in February either this past year or the year before due and an unusual warm spell.

    The one thing I will add is that you might want to remove your pressure gauge on your filter as it will surely not work in the spring. They are pretty cheap but I keep an old one and swap it out in the winter so I don't have to keep buying new ones.

    Riles
    16x32 IG vinyl, 19,000 gal, 1.0 hp pump, sand filter, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, diving board, slide

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    orthofish's Avatar
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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Thank you Riles_J. That was what I was hoping to do. What's the deal with the pressure gage????
    Do you have a pool house around your equipment????
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    The gauge I was referring to is the gauge that tells you how many psi your filter is running at. Mine is a dial that you screw into the back of the pump. They only cost about $10, but they don't like freezing temps.

    riles
    16x32 IG vinyl, 19,000 gal, 1.0 hp pump, sand filter, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, diving board, slide

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    I am so glad to see this thread. I have a new pool and don't want to close. i just love looking at it. I would love to write so much more, but i broke my arm and can't hardly type one-handed. i live in middle TN. if you decide what to do about the deck jets and slide (or if someone knows), please let me know. We have them, too. Any other advice would be great. This winter concerns me because it has been such a strage year. We have not had to add any water, we've had to let water out many times.

    We have ordered an Aneri-dome.

    Donna
    Donna
    18X37 Grecian Vinyl Liner, X-Stream Slide, 1 1/2HP Hayward Pump, 3/4HP Polaris Booster, AquaRite SWG, Jandy AE3000 Heat/Cool, Jandy Deck Jets, 4.0 Colorlogic Light, Polaris 280 Cleaner

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    Quote Originally Posted by Riles_J
    The gauge I was referring to is the gauge that tells you how many psi your filter is running at. Mine is a dial that you screw into the back of the pump. They only cost about $10, but they don't like freezing temps.

    riles
    Yea, I knew what you were talking about. I just didn't realize freezing temps would break it. Mine sits ontop. But if I remove it I wouldn't be able to run the pump would I?????
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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    Re: I don't want to winterize

    What about my thoughts on getting water out of the deck jet lines. Would that work???? I think they are very close to being at the freeze line under the concrete so I would say I would just have to syphon enough water out to get to the 90 where they head back to the pad??????????
    Thanks for all the help.
    I copied my question to the next post so you wouldn't have to go looking for it.
    Lynn

    16x38 FG, 20,400G, 1HP/2sp Tristar pump, Hayward 425sq ft cart. filter, Pro Logic4, SWCG, 3 returns, 2 main drains, 1 skimmer, 4 Pentair deck jets, Hayward Phantom pressure cleaner/booster pump, TF-100 of course :-)orthofish-s-pool-build-finally-t13179.html

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