Need some help...Final Decisions before I start my pool build!!!

[aaronhawk008]

What is the surface square feet and volume in gallons for your pool?

I guess BTU's impact how fast the water heats up, I was getting quotes for 400K BTU heaters - more expensive obviously but can heat much faster and more efficiently.

I think one skimmer is enough for that size pool but I may go with 2 skimmers myself since I have a lot of leaves in the area.

Good luck!

I personally would rather have the 400 BTU heater, one of my buddies who works for a local pool company told me he would as well. It is a little more upfront, but will save you $ in the long run. I am going to see if my PB will upgrade to a 400 BTU heater for me when I meet with him Monday.

Thanks for the input!

- - - Updated - - -

I had mentioned auto leveling (filling and overflow). Did you decide you didn't need that?

Did you ask about no drains?

I'm still waiting to hear back from my friend on if I really need the auto level. I didn't ask about no drains as I didn't know enough about why I wouldn't need them in the build. What is the benefit of not having drains? Any cons?

 

[Dirk]

I'm still waiting to hear back from my friend on if I really need the auto level. I didn't ask about no drains as I didn't know enough about why I wouldn't need them in the build. What is the benefit of not having drains? Any cons?

Anything that sucks water out of a pool poses a potential danger to swimmers. People have died from drains and suction ports. Laws were enacted to make them safer (that's how dangerous they were), and they are much safer now. Yours will be. But the safest drain is no drain. The best place for a suction port, to supply your filtering/heating systems, is under the skimmer basket, well away from curious fingers.

Drains are ugly, though there are solutions available that make them less so.

You can catch a toe on them.

They get in the way of brushing.

They can hang up a cleaner.

Those last three can be addressed with newer style drains that lie flush with the surface.

You don't need drains to drain a pool.

You don't need drains for circulation.

You don't need drains for cleaning.

Those last three were more old school uses, there are better solutions now.

The only purpose that I can think of that justifies a drain is as a backup to your skimmer. You can have a skimmer with a special valve in it that if it plugs up or runs dry (like if you neglect to fill your pool when it evaporates, or the pool springs a leak), the skimmer port seals off and your pump will get its water from the drain, theoretically saving the pump from running dry and burning out. I don't know what kind of risk that actually is. I check my skimmer daily and I have autofill, so that reduces the risk of skimmer failure. For me the minimal risk outweighed the benefits of no drains. I can buy another pump. I only have the one long-haired grand-daughter.

You won't likely be sorry you have drains. They can be shut down with valves to minimize any danger (and the danger is already pretty low). I just wanted to make you aware they are not necessary. And even if you do want them, they don't have to be the big clunky humps that a lot of PBs use as default. If you go with drains, I can give you some links to the less obnoxious options.

 

[aaronhawk008]

Anything that sucks water out of a pool poses a potential danger to swimmers. People have died from drains and suction ports. Laws were enacted to make them safer (that's how dangerous they were), and they are much safer now. Yours will be. But the safest drain is no drain. The best place for a suction port, to supply your filtering/heating systems, is under the skimmer basket, well away from curious fingers.

Drains are ugly, though there are solutions available that make them less so.

You can catch a toe on them.

They get in the way of brushing.

They can hang up a cleaner.

Those last three can be addressed with newer style drains that lie flush with the surface.

You don't need drains to drain a pool.

You don't need drains for circulation.

You don't need drains for cleaning.

Those last three were more old school uses, there are better solutions now.

The only purpose that I can think of that justifies a drain is as a backup to your skimmer. You can have a skimmer with a special valve in it that if it plugs up or runs dry (like if you neglect to fill your pool when it evaporates, or the pool springs a leak), the skimmer port seals off and your pump will get its water from the drain, theoretically saving the pump from running dry and burning out. I don't know what kind of risk that actually is. I check my skimmer daily and I have autofill, so that reduces the risk of skimmer failure. For me the minimal risk outweighed the benefits of no drains. I can buy another pump. I only have the one long-haired grand-daughter.

You won't likely be sorry you have drains. They can be shut down with valves to minimize any danger (and the danger is already pretty low). I just wanted to make you aware they are not necessary. And even if you do want them, they don't have to be the big clunky humps that a lot of PBs use as default. If you go with drains, I can give you some links to the less obnoxious options.

Thank you. This is good stuff. I will bring it up with my PB.

My buddy who works for a pool company said that he would recommend a drain. He is telling me the more places water is being pulled out of the pool causes better treatment to the water (if you’re only pulling the water off of the top, the water on the bottom never really gets circulated).

Would you agree?

I am new to this so I have no idea.

Thanks

Aaron H.

 

[ajw22]

I think Dirk is overstating his case a wee bit.

 

[Dirk]

I think Dirk is overstating his case a wee bit.

But I did actually make a case...

 

[Dirk]

Thank you. This is good stuff. I will bring it up with my PB.

My buddy who works for a pool company said that he would recommend a drain. He is telling me the more places water is being pulled out of the pool causes better treatment to the water (if you’re only pulling the water off of the top, the water on the bottom never really gets circulated).

Would you agree?

To be clear, I'm not a pool builder, hydraulics expert, pool circulation engineer, or anything of the sort. But one can make some common sense deductions.

Yes, obviously the more places you pull water from, and send it back into, a pool the better... for circulation. If you had a 100 drains and 200 returns, yes, your pool would circulate better than mine. What I'm suggesting, is how many are necessary to properly circulate a pool, and the answer is: zero.

If you run a return and a drain with the same pump, same RPM, same flow rate, which do you think will circulate (mix) the most water, most effectively: The drain, or the return? A drain is going to pull water from its immediate surroundings. From a foot away? Two feet away? A return can push water, move water, clear across a pool. A drain can't do that.

If you're worried about circulating the lower area of your pool's water column, then point the return eyeballs downward, or put a couple of returns in the deep end (I think they market that very simple concept as "Deep Heating" or something like that). Two returns near the bottom are going to circulate the water down there better than one drain. And returns (outies) have zero impact on safety.

More to the point: we have (will have) virtually identical pools. My drains we're never connected. And then I removed them all together. No circulation issues. No algae problems. Real world experience (well, in one pool, anyway).

I'm sure drains have their purpose for circulating large pools. I believe they're required in large commercial pools, so there must be some purpose to them. But in our size pool, they're not necessary.

Again, I'm not trying to talk you out of drains. I really like that mine are gone. Just sharing that fact, and why.

 

[SuzfromTexas]

If I'm remembering right (iffy at best), having a main drain during Hurricane Harvey saved my house from water damage. My overflow drain could not keep up with the rains we were getting per 15 minutes. At 2:30 in the morning, we didn't have a sump pump. Fortunately, my son was home at the time. It took both of us wrangling 3 garden hoses and all 3 of my pool pumps draining the pool water to keep the pool from overflowing. If we hadn't done that water would have come into the back of the house.

 

[Dirk]

If I'm remembering right (iffy at best), having a main drain during Hurricane Harvey saved my house from water damage. My overflow drain could not keep up with the rains we were getting per 15 minutes. At 2:30 in the morning, we didn't have a sump pump. Fortunately, my son was home at the time. It took both of us wrangling 3 garden hoses and all 3 of my pool pumps draining the pool water to keep the pool from overflowing. If we hadn't done that water would have come into the back of the house.

Hey Suz, I tried to balance my opinion about drains with why the OP might want one. All I could come up with was a backup for a skimmer malfunction. How did having a drain help maintain your water level? We're you using a drain valve at your pad to divert water from the main drain to a hose, then off somewhere else, out of your yard? In what way did a drain save the day, that a skimmer port could not have achieved?

PS. Glad your house was spared!

 

[santacruzpool]

My biggest regret (not really) but one of my regrets is that I didn't know about channel drains - I would have had a channel drain installed with the pebble finish.

Check these out: http://www.poolfittings.com/channel-pebble-top/

Our robot gets stuck on our drains - and since we have a sports pool (much like your design), the drains are right in the middle of the pool and might be a pain when playing. We haven't installed a volleyball net as of yet, but have plans to...

 

[Dirk]

Thanks santacruzpool, for the link (and for the real-world experience with drains). That's the company I was going to share. They have multiple solutions for solving drain issues (level with surface, camouflaging, low profile, etc).

So in a PM, Suz better described her use case for a drain. She was dropping the level of her water below the skimmer opening, in anticipation of major rain, so that is an excellent reason to have a drain. Something to consider, maybe, in Birmingham, AL?

But that function doesn't actually require a floor drain. The suction ports could be in the side of the pool, down low, which would address some of the other drain issues: stepping on them, hanging up cleaners and even aesthetics.

Aaron, I don't know if this is helping or just confusing. Again, just pointing out the various options beyond two big drains in the middle of your pool...