Nope, and nope. Brand new. Just last year. I decided Heliocol early on, and price shopped. Came up with the same numbers as you, and worse. I was seeing them for $1000 a panel in some cases. While I was researching I also had a local solar company give me an estimate. Their price was like $10K installed (though I think that also included a new VS pump and cheapie solar controller). I told 'em no thanks, but then they offered me a "kit." The kit included the eight panels (4x12) and absolutely every single thing I need to install myself: pipe (special black PVC), valves (Jandy), Heliocol roof mounts, special couplers, etc, etc... the works, down to screws, glue and even a few wiping rags. No foolin'. The panels were about $300 each. I still don't know how, or why, they gave me that deal. No other vendor could touch that. So before they changed their mind, I grabbed the deal. The warranty is a little vague, though they have already replaced one panel. I don't think I'll get Heliocol's 20-year (whatever it is), but the vendor did tell me they'd sell me more, or replacements, for $300. At that price I could buy another eight and still come out ahead (which is why I'm not too concerned about warranty). Still shakin' my head about it. I shared in PM with another guy here, who wanted in on this, and I haven't heard back. But I did talk to the sales guy I used, and they had connected and he said he was going to set him up. Crazy, right? But that's how I got that price...