New Guy,Looking for advice...does it just take time?

[Jbird2200]

One more question, your gauge. Does it go down to zero when you turn the pump off?

Yes it does.

Been busy for the past few days. The extra sand seems to be helping, I THINK if might be a tad too much as I'm seeing quite a bit of sand in the glass vial attached to the valve than I did before.

I finally received my vacuum equipment and vacuumed last night and this morning. Vacuumed to waste yesterday, tried to be quick, but still lost a lot of water. We've had some rather bright and hot (100*) days lately and I think that's making it more difficult. I've been adding water almost daily.

A few things.

I'm really surprised at how much chlorine I'm still having to add each day (approx 2 gal most days). I'm trying to keep the FC around 10.

Which brings me to my second point...CYA...Why can't I get my CYA up? Is it because I keep having to add water due to the frequent backwashing and Hades like heat we've had lately?

I have added a total of 8lbs. 2lbs was added to the skimmer (my fault, didn't know better) so I assume that probably got backwashed out, and the sand was changed since then, so lets call it 6lbs. 4lbs of the 6lbs was added by slowely sprinkling it directly in the pool around its edges. The final 2lbs was put in using the sock method over the course of 2-3 days. It was just empty yesterday around noon. I just checked it tonight, and I'm still estimating around 20 or so as it JUST starts to get really cloudy in my test kit around 30, which is its minimum threshold.

When I tested my FC today and it was low again this evening, I thought for sure maybe a component of that was that the CYA was finally rising some, but that doesn't appear so.

On the upside, the pool is clearing up. There was a good amound of flaky white stuff that I had brushed off the walls and vacuumed up and I can now see the silhouette of the robot on the bottom of the pool, but its still foggy.

At this point I don't know that I'll have it ready by the Fourth of July, which was my wife's plan to have a nice party at the new house.

Anything I'm doing wrong or just more of the same?

Am I not understanding something in regard to the CYA/FC relationship? I've read a bunch already, but I'm willing to learn.

Thanks again!

 

[mknauss]

The CYA you sprinkled in the pool was most likely vacuumed up and lost. Never add CYA that way. It will sit on your liner and stain it. Hopefully not in your case, but do not be surprised.

Wait a day after the CYA you put in via the sock is dissolved then test your CYA. You no doubt have very little of what you have added left in the pool.

 

[kellyfair]

Yeah, I’m with Marty. I think a good bit of what you added got backwashed out.

I believe you will be ready for that party! Test your CYA tomorrow, and if you aren’t at 30, add more to get you there. Heck, if you aren’t opposed, maybe shoot for 40. Will require a SLAM FC of 16 rather than 12. Then as much as you can, check that FC every few hours and bump. Every two hours, if you can manage.

 

[Jbird2200]

Thanks, the last CYA check I was referring to was tonight which was roughly 24 hour after the sock was empty. Unfortunately the kit I ordered only came with enough to do maybe 4 or 5 CYA tests, I think there is enough left to test 1, maybe 2 more times so I'll probably hold off on testing again tomorrow and plan on putting in at least another 2lbs via the sock method tomorrow and keep at it with the FC, then test CYA in a few days once its all dissolved.

The liner isn't exactly in the greatest shape to begin with, so if the CYA I've added has stained it I won't be terribly upset, but that is certainly good to know.

At this point I'm wishing I would have been able to do a good cost/payoff analysis to see if it would have behooved me to just have replaced the old liner and start fresh. I think I'm in around $250 or so in chemicals alone so far, just a little less than the cost of a liner online. Ugh.

 

[mopar440_6]

Jbird, keep at it! You will get there eventually.

Persistence and patience are the key. If you need a little inspiration, check out my first thread on here from 3 years ago. Save The Swamp! Er, pool...

 

[Jbird2200]

Jbird, keep at it! You will get there eventually.

Persistence and patience are the key. If you need a little inspiration, check out my first thread on here from 3 years ago. Save The Swamp! Er, pool...

Thanks, really trying. Nice thread, although I have to give you some honors as it appears it took you 1/3rd the time I've spent on this so far.

Got in and vacuumed again tonight my problem now is that while things are still clearing up, albeit slowly, I am still losing FC during the day like crazy. Drops as much as 10ppm. Now, we have had 100* days, with no overcast for several days now, but its too much to keep up with during the day. The wife has 3 kids when shes home and I'm at work.

At night its a different story. Last night, FC was 14, this morning 13.

Last night @ 9pm - FC: 14
This morning @ 0730 - FC: 13
Today at 3:15pm - FC: 3 (added 1 gal 10%)
Today at 8:15pm - FC: 4 (added 1 gal 10%)

SO......is it because my CYA is still low? I just finished adding about 1lbs via the sock as I was assuming my CYA was close to 20 based on the fact that the last time I test it, the black dot was very cloudy, but still visible at 30.

 

[mopar440_6]

Thanks, really trying. Nice thread, although I have to give you some honors as it appears it took you 1/3rd the time I've spent on this so far.

Just a note, I also have a DE filter (more efficient filtering) and we vacuumed twice a day for those two weeks. I went through a full 25 pound bag of DE (5 filter changes) because the filter got so full of algae during that time. We were also using skimmer socks which trapped a lot of the algae too but they also had to be changed hourly.

Got in and vacuumed again tonight my problem now is that while things are still clearing up, albeit slowly, I am still losing FC during the day like crazy. Drops as much as 10ppm. Now, we have had 100* days, with no overcast for several days now, but its too much to keep up with during the day. The wife has 3 kids when shes home and I'm at work.

At night its a different story. Last night, FC was 14, this morning 13.

Last night @ 9pm - FC: 14
This morning @ 0730 - FC: 13
Today at 3:15pm - FC: 3 (added 1 gal 10%)
Today at 8:15pm - FC: 4 (added 1 gal 10%)

SO......is it because my CYA is still low? I just finished adding about 1lbs via the sock as I was assuming my CYA was close to 20 based on the fact that the last time I test it, the black dot was very cloudy, but still visible at 30.

On to the problem at hand, it sounds like you're in a similar situation as I was/am, lots of direct sun to burn off that FC. I'm going to venture that because your CYA is still below that ideal 30-40 range you're losing a lot of FC to the environmental factors. One thing I did was to dose heavily (near Mustard algae shock FC) at night after the sun went down to give the chlorine a chance to work on those organics without the sun burning it off and so that it was a little higher to start the day off.

Based on the data from last night till today and assuming the FC is dropping linearly, with a little interpolation here's what your FC looks like over time.



The area I've circled in red, around 10-11AM, is where you need another bump in the FC to help level out the valleys to the right. If at all possible, maybe set out a half a gallon or so of LC and see if your wife can run out and dump that in around that time.

Another point that I actually just learned today, is that the CYA test is temperature sensitive. Make sure the sample is min 75*F before going to the test vial. If you need more CYA reagent and happen to have Amazon Prime, it is available for 2 day shipping.

Keep at it. I was reluctant also when we bought the house (I think I even threatened to drive my truck through the pool) but I can promise you that it's worth it the first time you get to spend an evening splashing with the kids.

 

[Jbird2200]

Well, thanks for the visual Mopar....I can report that everything is finally looking cleared up. We have had a fair amount of overcast and the temps FINALLY dropped below 90 hear in the Midwest.

I can clearly see the bottom of the pool....has a bit of a speckled pattern on the liner.....aaaaand I can clearly see the amount of sand that has been pushed through to the pool......really wish the folks at Hayward could have given me an accurate lbs of sand measure...it appears I put in one bag too many. I will be vacuuming to waste this weekend and will consider removing the valve and removing some if it continues to dump into the pool.

FC tonight was 12.5 after going at it 3 times today. Will recheck in the morning with hopes that it is at least 11.5.

Still need to get an accurate CYA. Just finished dissolving the latest 2lbs or so via the sock today, so I think tomorrow evening, or maybe Saturday, I'll try to test again with hopes of at least 30.

The liner is a somewhat odd light teal color, so I don't know that the water will ever have that classic "blue" look to it, but I'm a bit amazed to finally see it "clear".

This pic doesn't quite do it justice, but was all I took earlier.

 

[mopar440_6]

Congrats! Sounds like you're winning and further ahead than we are this season (we just opened and started the SLAM on Wednesday and have a nice cloudy teal color).

If you're getting a good idea for the FC demand, figure out how much you need to overshoot the FC value so that it is still at or above the recommended shock level when you test the next time (I.E. maintain the FC level). For example, my shock level goal is FC: 12. I'm losing about 0.8 FC per hour. My test at 10:00 this morning was FC: 11 and I knew I wouldn't be able to test for at least 7 hours. So 7*0.8=5.6, round up to 6, 6+12=18. Plug 18 into Poolmath as "Target" with 11 as "Now" to get the amount of LC. Just remember the FC loss/usage will vary with daytime/nightime, overcast/sun, rain, etc and adjust accordingly.

Remember, don't end the SLAM until you meet all 3 criteria; pass the OCLT, CC is 0.5 or less, and the pool is CLEAR like this.

 

[kellyfair]

Slamming with no or little CYA is going to take a lot longer because your FC isn’t going to hang around long enough to work on the algae. That’s why we recommend boosting CYA to 30 before beginning to SLAM.

 

[Jbird2200]

Slamming with no or little CYA is going to take a lot longer because your FC isn’t going to hang around long enough to work on the algae. That’s why we recommend boosting CYA to 30 before beginning to SLAM.

Yup, and at the end of the day I think this is the primary reason it took so long, and that I had to waste so much money on additional chlorine rather than getting the cya up first.

It passed the overnight test with flying colors this morning, the CC was not detectable last night, and I can see clear to the bottom. I will be testing the CYA tomorrow to ensure, but I'll be blown away if I'm not at 30 by now.

 

[Jbird2200]

Ok all,

Pool is clear as can be. Here are the readings from today:

FC: 3
CC: 0
CYA: 35
pH: 7.8
TA: 360
CH: 150
If I'm using this wheel correctly, my Saturation Index is about 0.8...."possible scaling"???

SO...bringing my pH down to around 7.5 or so should correct that?

It appears I may just need to make some fine tuning adjustments now.

 

[mknauss]

You are confident of the TA test at 360?

I suggest entering your data into Poolmath and using CSI -- Pool School - Calcium Saturation Index (CSI))

 

[DeanP66]

Sometimes the TA dropper builds up static on the tip and the drops come out much smaller, which could be why your TA is registering so high. Rerun the TA test again but this time, wipe the tip of the 3rd reagent with a wet cloth to remove any built up static. Let's see if you get something a little more normal (lower). Also, check the TA of your fill water. It may be high as well, which means that it will constantly be creeping up as you top up your pool from water evaporating during the summer.

 

[Jbird2200]

Sometimes the TA dropper builds up static on the tip and the drops come out much smaller, which could be why your TA is registering so high. Rerun the TA test again but this time, wipe the tip of the 3rd reagent with a wet cloth to remove any built up static. Let's see if you get something a little more normal (lower). Also, check the TA of your fill water. It may be high as well, which means that it will constantly be creeping up as you top up your pool from water evaporating during the summer.

Will do, I didn't think about it at the time, but I do recall ONE of the tests (not sure which one) today, the dropper was rather difficult to get a drop out of it.

- - - Updated - - -

You are confident of the TA test at 360?

I suggest entering your data into Poolmath and using CSI -- Pool School - Calcium Saturation Index (CSI))

I'll retest tomorrow, but the TA has been high every time I've tested it since the beginning. As suggested, I'll also test the water from the well.

 

[ovalInAndover]

Flocculant -- That is the best way to get the green out of the pool. Not sure about all this other testing responses. All I know that once it's green, flocculant is the best way to clear it and save the sand in your filter. You'll want to flush that floc outside of the pool and then vac it good. That is the best way to get rid of green. I find that keeping the ph and alkalinity in the right ranges reduces your need for chlorine. Your pool burns more chlorine when there is alot of stuff to get rid of ...

Flocculant is not fun -- sometimes it is a necessary evil IMHO.

 

[Jive5877]

Flocculant -- That is the best way to get the green out of the pool. Not sure about all this other testing responses. All I know that once it's green, flocculant is the best way to clear it and save the sand in your filter. You'll want to flush that floc outside of the pool and then vac it good. That is the best way to get rid of green. I find that keeping the ph and alkalinity in the right ranges reduces your need for chlorine. Your pool burns more chlorine when there is alot of stuff to get rid of ...

Flocculant is not fun -- sometimes it is a necessary evil IMHO.

I agree with using floc....I know it's not smiled upon, but clears up that last remaining bits in two to three days. I started to think I would never get my pool clean and now the water looks like crystal and I'm in it every chance I get.

 

[Jbird2200]

Flocculant -- That is the best way to get the green out of the pool. Not sure about all this other testing responses. All I know that once it's green, flocculant is the best way to clear it and save the sand in your filter. You'll want to flush that floc outside of the pool and then vac it good. That is the best way to get rid of green. I find that keeping the ph and alkalinity in the right ranges reduces your need for chlorine. Your pool burns more chlorine when there is alot of stuff to get rid of ...

Flocculant is not fun -- sometimes it is a necessary evil IMHO.

I considered using it at one point, but I'm past that point now. Pool is clear, now just need to figure out what I need to do to further correct/maintain water chemistry.

 

[aussieta]

watch the chlorine it is near minimum, your target is 4-6

 

[kimkats]

Flocculant -- That is the best way to get the green out of the pool. Not sure about all this other testing responses. All I know that once it's green, flocculant is the best way to clear it and save the sand in your filter. You'll want to flush that floc outside of the pool and then vac it good. That is the best way to get rid of green. I find that keeping the ph and alkalinity in the right ranges reduces your need for chlorine. Your pool burns more chlorine when there is alot of stuff to get rid of ...

Flocculant is not fun -- sometimes it is a necessary evil IMHO.

Floc will not kill algae nor remove algae from the water. Chlorine is the best tool for that. Floc can remove the dead algae from the water but it can also cause problems.

Kim TFP MOD

- - - Updated - - -

I considered using it at one point, but I'm past that point now. Pool is clear, now just need to figure out what I need to do to further correct/maintain water chemistry.

I have a set of links I put together for new pool owners:


Print these out:
Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

Pool School - Recommended Levels

Bookmark these:
Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

Pool Math

Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

Make sure to ask any and all questions you might have no matter how small! We have all been where you are at one point.

You have done a great job getting that pool cleared up for your wife! :super: Now wait until you see it REALLY clear when you dial everything in!

Kim