Pool Cleaner pressure vs. Pool Filter pressure

[Dogcalleddill]

Hello everyone,

I recently replaced my Polaris Caretaker 5 port Valve unit as the cleaning heads were no longer rising. Prior to the replacement, the pump pressure indicated on my Pentair sand filter was between 20psi (clean) and 30psi (required cleaning).

With the new pool cleaner valve, and with the main return valve fully open, the operating pressure is around 5psi, which is not enough to drive the cleaning heads.

To increase pressure I tried reducing the flow to the main return. With the main return half closed, the psi on the Caretaker increases to 5psi, which doesn't seem to be enough to drive the 3 heads in the middle of the pool, which open simultaneously. With the main return fully closed, the psi on the Caretaker increases to 10psi, which I understand is still not within normal limits, but does drive the pool cleaning heads. HOWEVER, this increases the pressure on the Pentair sand filter to 25psi with the main return half closed and 30psi with the main return fully closed. My last Pentair sand filter cracked when the pressure went over 35psi, so I'm concerned that this might happen again.

I don't have any other valves open (fountain, waterfall etc.). The only other valves are the suction valve for pool robot (off) and the valve that splits between the skimmer (40%) and the main drain (60%) for suction.

I checked the caretaker valve and all unions for water leaks but can't find any. What am I doing wrong? Is there another way to regulate the pool filter and pool cleaner pressure? I thought opening the valve on the pool filter pressure gauge might help, but wouldn't that simply lower the pressure overall?

All suggestions and advice greatly appreciated. I know this is an amazing forum!

Thanks,

 

[jblizzle]

It almost sounds like something is blocking some of the flow between the filter and the caretaker assembly.

Was the gauge replaced on the caretaker assembly?

Also note that waiting for a 10 psi rise before cleaning the filter is way too long. We recommend cleaning the filter when the pressure rises 20 to 25% over the clean pressure.

 

[Dodger]

I believe closing off the main return and dedicating flow to the Caretaker is the proper way to run the in-floor system. As you stated, it needs high pressure (15-19psi).

But 20psi drop from your filter (30) to your Caretaker (10) is crazy. If yours is the same system I recall, you have some distance to travel from your equipment pad to your Caretaker, and it is underground. As Jason said, I would explore if there are any flow impediments along those lines.

I've been looking for help to solve my "only" 6-8psi drop from filter to Caretaker, but my Caretaker is above ground at my equipment pad and the plumbing is much easier to assess. Following along to see what suggestions you get.

 

[Dogcalleddill]

Hi Jason,
I purchased a complete caretaker port valve including the already mounted pressure gauge - The old unit had a small crack next to the pressure gauge so I replaced the whole thing.

Thanks for the tip on cleaning. The Pentair pressure gauge has a marking on the outer rim for start and clean and they are 10psi apart. I did wonder whether this was right because the pump runs at 20psi at start up and 30psi is too close for comfort for my liking.

Is there an easy way to check for blockages? Never had to do this before.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Dodgr,

Thanks for the advice. Actually my setup is similar to yours. The caretaker valve is right next to the sand filter and above ground.

I’ll try and find threads on checking for blockages. I remember the main return was never shut off, so it sounds like there’s probably something stuck in the pipes.

When I replaced the old caretaker the dome filter was clean so it must be something larger.

 

[Dodger]

A couple of thoughts:

1. If you have a pressure relief loop near the Caretaker, it should have a 30psi relief valve that is activated as a safety relief for the Caretaker. This loop should be plumbed back to your main return line. It could be activating since you have such high pressure in your line, or it could be failing its spec'd activation level and be letting water through at a lower pressure, therefore degrading the line pressure on your Caretaker.

2. The valve that you use to close off your main return supply could be faulty.

Either of these would be sending water to your main return (wall jets?) when supposedly in 100% Caretaker mode.

 

[Dogcalleddill]

I haven’t been able to do any more troubleshooting because of the relentless downpour, but I do notice the pretty loud sound of rushing water going through the pipe just before the caretaker valve. I can’t remember if it was like this before. Is that normal or a sign that a partial blockage is right there?

 

[Dodger]

I can't tell exactly just from a description of rushing water, but I will describe the loud noise issue that we get with our Caretaker and maybe it helps you determine if yours is similar or different.

In our case, I believe it is due to low flow and/or air in the line because we get it in 2 circumstances:

1. After I've opened up the system to do maintenance like filter clean, pump basket clean, valve check, etc. So air is in the line and has to work it's way out.

2. After running the VSP on a lower setting for several days with flow open to the Caretaker.

The noise we get is a loud stuttering sound within the Caretaker valve as it rotates from one port to the next. It's quiet while at that port, then starts again while switching to the next port. I believe it may be what is described as a water hammer, but I don't fully understand the mechanism before and after it clears up.

The way I get rid of it is by running at a moderate pump speed and modulating the valve that chooses Caretaker or main return. Basically, I allow it to stutter a little, then close of Caretaker and open to main return. I do this over and over for several minutes until eventually the Caretaker doesn't stutter any more.

Not sure this has anything to do with the pressure drop from filter to Caretaker you are seeing. But if your sound is similar and doesn't always happen, then trace back to recent maintenance, etc. If you haven't made any changes, then perhaps there is a flow issue between filter and Caretaker...?

 

[Dogcalleddill]

OK, So I finally got to taking another look.

I also get stuttering when the valve rotates from one port to the next, but it's not especially loud. The pressure drops a few psi as this is happening then jumps back to its previous pressure reading.

I tried turning the return valve off and on a few times and the rising sound seems to have decreased, so maybe there was something blocking the valve or the valve is faulty. The pressure difference between the sand filter and the care taking is still 10psi, but now all the cleaning heads are rising in the pool. I'm not sure how high the heads should rise, but they do come up and the water pressure, although not striking seems to be enough to move the dirt towards the main drain. The pool isn't 100% clean on the bottom, but until I can figure out the root cause it will have to do.

Still stumped, but there is an improvement.

Thanks again for the input and I'll wait to see if things improve further.